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    • Weistec Engineering now offering Stage I Naturally Aspirated M156/63 AMG tune - +47 wheel horsepower on 91 octane, $990

      We thought this eventually might come but not so soon. Weistec has decided to sell a naturally aspirated tune for the M156 V8 which offers gains of 47 wheel horsepower on 91 octane, impressive. In addition to the horsepower gain torque is upped by 32 wheel, the speed limiter is removed, and the throttle response is optimized. The price is a very reasonable $990 which also is credited toward a supercharger purchase should one decide they want more power.




      Key Features:

      • +47 Wheel Horsepower
      • +32 Wheel Torque
      • Eliminate Top Speed Limiter
      • Increased Throttle Response
      • Optimized Fuel and Spark
      • Credit towards Stage 1/1+ Supercharger Systems


      To order: http://weistec.com/m156nas1.html
      This article was originally published in forum thread: Weistec Engineering now offering Stage I Naturally Aspirated M156/63 AMG tune - +47 wheel horsepower on 91 octane, $990 started by Sticky View original post
      Comments 400 Comments
      1. Sticky's Avatar
        Sticky -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by propain Click here to enlarge
        Sorry, I can think of some others names for you if you like? Are you offended by me calling you Joe? LOL
        I'm just messing man Click here to enlarge

        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by propain Click here to enlarge
        Yes, you can address the actual comment about using a microscope to pickup the adding HP at the track and actual track results. To me 10 whp adding .001 MPH at the track did nothing as far as track gains go. Sure, if you want to have a discussion with a few scientist you gained something im sure.
        Even 10 whp will show on the track, it doesn't need to be looked at with a microscope. 10 whp is actually a pretty nice difference on an E46 M3 or E92 M3 for example. So nothing is being asked here that needs to be looked at with a microscope I think you are just coming up with some bizarre scenarios. Horsepower makes a difference, period.

        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by propain Click here to enlarge
        What car is that again? The one you dont drive and lives on the dyno? How would you know? LOL
        Lives on the dyno? At a single drag rental I attended while only naturally aspirated I did 17 passes. That is just 1 event and I did about 5 I think before the supercharger with my E92 M3? So what are you talking about?

        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by propain Click here to enlarge
        Edit cutoff. I know the number. Cute deflection though.
        Well then if you know it write the correct numbers.

        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by propain Click here to enlarge
        Not irrelivant at all. Again, you cant have it both ways. Either the baseline was low due to the machine reading low or the 441 would be low as well. Are you saying on another dyno that 441 could show up as 471 whp? You know, the dyno's that read NORMAL. Thats what you are saying. The low number is a low reading because the dyno reads low. Unless you are saying the E63 dynoed was down on power? Crank HP is Crank HP. Drive train loss is completely RELEVANT. You are not getting 24% drive train loss unless something on the dyno is wacked or the vehicle is down on power. Pick one. Then we can debate that. The peak whp is normal. The baseline is not. Explain that.
        You have absolutely no proof that the E63 in question is dyno'ing low. You have no idea how that dynojet reads vs. other dynojets. If you grab other E63's and they all put down 420+ stock then yes, clearly there is a disparity. All dynojets are not equal and there are different models of dynojets. Why do I have to keep pointing this out?

        Dyno's that read normal? What dyno? In what conditions? With what correction factor? Page 8 and I still don't have SAE baselines to reference yet I have provided an SAE baseline reading lower. Come on, give me some substance.

        Drivetrain loss is completely irrelevant when discussing wheel figures. Who cares what the % is? The BMW 1M dyno's at the wheels about what it makes at the crank supposedly on a dynojet. So what, it has no loss? Don't you get it? What matters is the delta and the change from baseline to tune. Drivetrain loss here is completely meaningless as it will change if you are calculating from crank based on WHP from dyno to dyno. Nobody is saying the drivetrain loss is 24, you are, and it's a completely irrelevant point and has no application.

        There are a ton of reasons why this E63 put down 395 which have already been covered.

        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by propain Click here to enlarge
        Basics are completely there. You should dont want to see them because they dont help your arguement. Simple Joe tactic.
        What tactic? I'm honestly amazed crank figures are mentioned here and with some of your responses.
      1. Sticky's Avatar
        Sticky -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by propain Click here to enlarge
        Please make this clear for us. Are you talking about actual results that can be detected at the track in the slips or are you talking about micoscopic results a scientist would need to see? If its the latter there is no point in going on.
        Huh? Miscroscopic results? Focus. Horsepower, whether 1 or 1 billion must have an appreciable affect if added. What you are arguing at this point I do not know.
      1. Sticky's Avatar
        Sticky -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by c32AMG-DTM Click here to enlarge
        You must have a well-calibrated butt dyno, then.

        Especially since the sensation of accelleration we experience is primarily derived from torque, not HP... and I don't know about your car, maybe you added gobs of HP all at once, but something like an air filter that might give 10 whp on a 440 whp car (like the one being discussed in this thread)... you're talking about a 2% change in output. You could unequivocally detect such a change, plus or minus?
        I wasn't referring to my butt dyno but seeing the horses at work on the strip.

        I doubt you could tell 2% in your example on the street but you would be able to see it on the strip assuming equal conditions. Say you did it the same day at the track. 10 whp through the curve is a nice gain.
      1. Sticky's Avatar
        Sticky -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by mainah Click here to enlarge
        Winner.

        The importance of the above statement by cpais cannot be emphasized enough.
        There are a lot of factors for improving ET but that isn't really the point. Some guys seem to be intent on saying horsepower won't show up. The point is if you add it the LAWS OF PHYSICS dictate that must factor in.

        No doubt there is a lot of trial and error, tire compound, suspension work, etc., that all goes into drag racing but that is not what is being debated.
      1. propain's Avatar
        propain -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sticky Click here to enlarge
        Huh? Miscroscopic results? Focus. Horsepower, whether 1 or 1 billion must have an appreciable affect if added. What you are arguing at this point I do not know.
        Pay attention now.

        When you are talking about a 3900lb vehicle that traps 150 MPH, 10 WHP will add NOTHING to your ET or MPH. Zip, Zero. At least not on the slips. Why do you keep missing this point? The faster you go the more HP you will need to show gains. There will be gains but so small they will not be detected by the track measuring equipment. I dont know why you cant let this sink in. Its a fact.

        Take a top fuel dragster. Have it run its time. Add 10whp. Run it again. You will see no gain on the slips. 10whp at that level will do nothing. You need way more than that to show a gain ON THE TRACK.
      1. Sticky's Avatar
        Sticky -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by propain Click here to enlarge
        When you are talking about a 3900lb vehicle that traps 150 MPH, 10 WHP will add NOTHING to your ET or MPH.
        Nothing? Really? All of a sudden additional horsepower that always adds something before stops because the car is hitting 150 and it weighs 3900 pounds? The resistance will increase at that point but horsepower will still make an appreciable difference.

        Use a drag racing calculator if you want to see this yourself. Here is an example: http://www.darkside.ca/tool.asp

        Simple equation as stated: HP = Weight * (MPH / 234) ^3

        3900 pounds with 150 trap estimated at 1027.3 horses. With 151 trap horses change to 1048. Wow, so only 20 crank horses to add a MPH at 150 and 3900 pounds? Sure looks to me like "only" 20 crank horses or for you drivetrain loss enthusiasts 16 at the wheels SAE on a dynojet despite your inflated example. How about that? A lowly 16 whp will add a MPH when already at over 1000 horses? Insanity.

        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by propain Click here to enlarge
        Take a top fuel dragster. Have it run its time. Add 10whp. Run it again. You will see no gain on the slips. 10whp at that level will do nothing. You need way more than that to show a gain ON THE TRACK.
        The only reason you will have a hard time discerning the difference of 10 hp on a top fuel dragster is because that 10 HP is such a low %. It will still make a difference though even being minute. These cars are not top fuel dragsters though and we aren't dealing with thousands of horsepower. What validity is there to an example you choose to minimize the difference which must be there? Just because it will be harder to tell the difference due to 10 hp being such a lower % gain on a top fuel dragster does not mean the 10 hp has no affect simply that it is more difficult to discern. Really? This is what you have? The fact is the laws of physics apply and you can't argue with them. Go ahead, keep trying.
      1. propain's Avatar
        propain -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sticky Click here to enlarge
        I'm just messing man Click here to enlarge


        ok, Joe. Click here to enlarge

        Lives on the dyno? At a single drag rental I attended while only naturally aspirated I did 17 passes. That is just 1 event and I did about 5 I think before the supercharger with my E92 M3? So what are you talking about?

        Just messing with you. Click here to enlarge

        Well then if you know it write the correct numbers.

        I wrote it correctly before that post. Stop being trivial.

        You have absolutely no proof that the E63 in question is dyno'ing low. You have no idea how that dynojet reads vs. other dynojets. If you grab other E63's and they all put down 420+ stock then yes, clearly there is a disparity. All dynojets are not equal and there are different models of dynojets. Why do I have to keep pointing this out?

        Because you need more data before you can make any statement on how this dyno reads. Logic says it reads low or the power was down on the E63. Logic says show me more results that this dyno reads low. Show me some more data before you draw your conclusions about a Dyno you know nothing about. How are you able to come to the conclusion that its reading fine? Based on what? I dont see why you defend it so much when you really dont even know. You want people to take logic and throw it out the window because you say so. It doesnt work that way. You prove your points with facts, not statements.

        I have and many others have seen what a E63 baseline dyno's and that one looks low. You have others also, but not from this machine. Unless you can show a trend from this machine the speculation will always be there. Show me some trend data to prove your point.

        Dyno's that read normal? What dyno? In what conditions? With what correction factor? Page 8 and I still don't have SAE baselines to reference yet I have provided an SAE baseline reading lower. Come on, give me some substance.

        A Baseline SAE of a E63. Where I live if an E63 baselined as low as the one in the graph I would be concerned.

        Drivetrain loss is completely irrelevant when discussing wheel figures. Who cares what the % is? The BMW 1M dyno's at the wheels about what it makes at the crank supposedly on a dynojet. So what, it has no loss? Don't you get it? What matters is the delta and the change from baseline to tune. Drivetrain loss here is completely meaningless as it will change if you are calculating from crank based on WHP from dyno to dyno. Nobody is saying the drivetrain loss is 24, you are, and it's a completely irrelevant point and has no application.

        The data shows the drivetrain loss is 24% based on what is the known stock crank HP. Unless of course the power was down on the E63 in question or the dyno settings were not adjusted properly. I am open to all those conditions. What is your excuse again? The machine reads low? Im not sure what direction you are taking with this.

        Its just a form of reference. Again, when you look at the baseline and see a 24% loss you should be concerned when the advertised crank HP spells out it should be more than that.

        There are a ton of reasons why this E63 put down 395 which have already been covered.

        What reasons? I must have missed them.

        ...
      1. propain's Avatar
        propain -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sticky Click here to enlarge
        Nothing? Really? All of a sudden additional horsepower that always adds something before stops because the car is hitting 150 and it weighs 3900 pounds? The resistance will increase at that point but horsepower will still make an appreciable difference.

        Again, not detectable at the track. The faster you go the more resistance you encounter and the more power you will need to show a noticeable difference.

        Use a drag racing calculator if you want to see this yourself. Here is an example: http://www.darkside.ca/tool.asp

        3900 pounds with 150 trap estimated at 1027.3 horses. With 151 trap 1048. Wow, so only 20 crank horses to add a MPH at 150 and 3900 pounds? Sure looks to me like "only" 20 crank horses or for you drivetrain loss enthusiasts 16 at the wheels SAE on a dynojet. How about that? A lowly 16 whp will add a MPH? Insanity.

        HAHAHA... Keep using those calculators. Sheeshh.. are you really a car guy?


        The only reason you will have a hard time discerning the difference of 10 hp on a top fuel dragster is because that 10 HP is such a low %. It will still make a difference though even being minute. These cars are not top fuel dragsters though and we aren't dealing with thousands of horsepower. What validity is there to an example you choose to minimize the laws of physics? Just because it will be harder to tell the difference due to 10 hp being such a lower % gain on a top fuel dragster does not mean the 10 hp has no affect simply that it is more difficult to discern. Really? This is what have? The fact is the laws of physics apply and you can't argue with them. Go ahead, keep trying.

        Again, not something you detect. Finally you have understood my point. I knew you had it in you.

        ...
      1. Sticky's Avatar
        Sticky -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by propain Click here to enlarge
        Just messing with you.
        Didn't sound like it but I'm just glad to prove that statement wrong.

        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by propain Click here to enlarge
        I wrote it correctly before that post. Stop being trivial.
        Don't get the numbers wrong and I won't have to point it out.

        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by propain Click here to enlarge
        Because you need more data before you can make any statement on how this dyno reads.
        Then your own statement right here shoots your entire point into the ground, thank you. You have no idea how this dyno reads or have any sample on this dyno to use so people need to stop making assumptions or excuses based on nothing stating the car reads low, something is wrong with it, or that there is something wrong with the dyno itself. I don't even need to say anything as you made my point for me.

        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by propain Click here to enlarge
        I have and many others have seen what a E63 baseline dyno's and that one looks low. You have others also, but not from this machine. Unless you can show a trend from this machine the speculation will always be there. Show me some trend data to prove your point.
        My point is dyno's vary. It is proven simply by the variance seen in this thread with graphs posted. Why don't you show me that all E63's must read 410+ at all times? My point is proven, yours can't be.

        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by propain Click here to enlarge
        Its just a form of reference. Again, when you look at the baseline and see a 24% loss you should be concerned when the advertised crank HP spells out it should be more than that.
        My car dyno'd 349 whp on Evosport's dynojet. I barely cracked 300 whp on Gintani's Dyno Dynamics and RPI's Dyno Dynamics. Should I be concerned? No, the only thing I would need to worry about is people who just can't process why there is a difference between these.

        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by propain Click here to enlarge
        What reasons? I must have missed them.
        Yes, you missed them.
      1. Sticky's Avatar
        Sticky -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by propain Click here to enlarge
        HAHAHA... Keep using those calculators. Sheeshh.. are you really a car guy?
        Enough of a car guy to have slips which back up dyno gains. For some reason they coincide with traditional drag racing formulas from classic NHRA days. For some reason I can't find ANY support for your claim of imaginary horses that don't do anything. I really thought we had better informed enthusiasts here but that is ok, one day you will look back on this and laugh at your posts.

        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by propain Click here to enlarge
        Again, not something you detect. Finally you have understood my point. I knew you had it in you.
        Your point is what exactly? You certainly can detect a 10 horsepower change even on a top fuel dragster it is just much more difficult due to the % gain being so much lower. Of course it can be detected, what are you talking about? You can continue to pull out any example you want the laws of physics won't change. I'm wondering when it will sink in.
      1. cpais's Avatar
        cpais -
        I think we should put the drag racing on hold and Sticky and Propain should just line up and have a pissing contest.

        I didn't realize that this thread was really about Weistec offering an NA tune now. I guess that really got off topic.

        Good to see Weistec is branching out and using a lot of stuff they learned with the tuning for their supercharger to help the NA guys too.
      1. propain's Avatar
        propain -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sticky Click here to enlarge
        Didn't sound like it but I'm just glad to prove that statement wrong.


        Ok then...

        Don't get the numbers wrong and I won't have to point it out.

        Ok Joe, let me know when you get out of the 6th grade and we can continue.

        Then your own statement right here shoots your entire point into the ground, thank you. You have no idea how this dyno reads or any sample on this dyno to use so people need to stop making assumptions or excuses based on nothing stating the car reads low, something is wrong with it, or that there is something wrong with the dyno itself. I don't even need to say anything you made my point for me.


        And yours... You know nothing yet you defend it like you do. Again, only because its your vendor and they pay. Try to be more objective. You have made my point as well.


        My point is dyno's vary. It is proven simply by the variance seen in this thread with graphs posted. Why don't you show me that all E63's must read 410+ at all times? My point is proven, yours can't be.

        Yup, they vary. Except the top number isnt low. Its on par as to what is normal. So hmmmm....

        My car dyno'd 349 whp on Evosport's dynojet. I barely cracked 300 whp on Gintani's Dyno Dynamics and RPI's Dyno Dynamics. Should I be concerned? No, the only thing I would need to worry about is people who just can't process why there is a difference between these.

        and thats why Dyno results mean nothing. Thank you for proving my point. I knew you would get it.



        Yes, you missed them.

        To much crap to sift through.

        ....
      1. Sticky's Avatar
        Sticky -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by cpais Click here to enlarge
        I think we should put the drag racing on hold and Sticky and Propain should just line up and have a pissing contest.
        There is not much I can do, the guy is arguing against the rules that bind the universe.

        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by cpais Click here to enlarge
        Good to see Weistec is branching out and using a lot of stuff they learned with the tuning for their supercharger to help the NA guys too.
        My point.
      1. Dodger63's Avatar
        Dodger63 -
        Who is tho cpais guy and with 10 posts he obviously has no idea about drag racing or anything else car related for that matter
      1. cpais's Avatar
        cpais -
        I learned everything I know from MBWorld, LOL
      1. propain's Avatar
        propain -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sticky Click here to enlarge
        Your point is what exactly? You certainly can detect a 10 horsepower change even on a top fuel dragster it is just much more difficult due to the % gain being so much lower. Of course it can be detected, what are you talking about? You can continue to pull out any example you want the laws of physics won't change. I'm wondering when it will sink in.
        The idea you cant grasp the point someone else is making is your problem and always will be. You simply just wait for your turn to speak and brush past anything you dont like. This is why debating you is the brick wall. I believe a brick wall would read more at this point though..

        Again... MICRO results NOT DETECTABLE ON THE TRACK. Said this about 10 times now. How many times until it sinks in? Round and round.... pointless.. Have the last word... so silly at this point.
      1. Sticky's Avatar
        Sticky -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by propain Click here to enlarge
        Ok Joe, let me know when you get out of the 6th grade and we can continue.
        6th grade? Yet I have a basic understanding of physics you seem to lack? Guess I'm a prodigy.

        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by propain Click here to enlarge
        And yours... You know nothing yet you defend it like you do. Again, only because its your vendor and they pay. Try to be more objective. You have made my point as well.
        What exactly does any vendor have to do with dyno variance? The only reason I'm saying anything is due to some idiotic statements in the thread. You know, like disappearing horses.

        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by propain Click here to enlarge
        Yup, they vary. Except the top number isnt low. Its on par as to what is normal. So hmmmm....
        What is normal? On what dyno? At what correction factor? This is why I hate discussing topics with people who don't even get the basics yet they actually think they know something. Go ahead and show me dyno's of what is normal.

        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by propain Click here to enlarge
        and thats why Dyno results mean nothing. Thank you for proving my point. I knew you would get it.
        You missed the point again, why can you not process it? It was not that dyno's mean nothing it was that dyno's vary. The drivetrain loss did not suddenly change on a different dyno. Why are you not capable of grasping this?

        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by propain Click here to enlarge
        To much crap to sift through.
        I guess expecting you to read and know what you are talking about is asking a bit much. If you want to debate something it would be nice for you to at least be informed but it seems your desire is more to argue pointlessly than make a point.
      1. propain's Avatar
        propain -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Dodger63 Click here to enlarge
        Who is tho cpais guy and with 10 posts he obviously has no idea about drag racing or anything else car related for that matter
        Hmmmm... big guy... smokes.... I detect a Long Island accent. LOL
      1. BAD430BENZ's Avatar
        BAD430BENZ -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Dodger63 Click here to enlarge
        Who is tho cpais guy and with 10 posts he obviously has no idea about drag racing or anything else car related for that matter
        Click here to enlarge
      1. cpais's Avatar
        cpais -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by propain Click here to enlarge
        Hmmmm... big guy... smokes.... I detect a Long Island accent. LOL
        I don't have a Long Island accent, at least I hope I don't.