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    • Watch the Porsche 958 Cayenne Turbo beat up the Mercedes-Benz W166 ML63 AMG around the track - Mercedes traction control can not be disabled

      The new ML63 is a beast thanks to the M157 5.5 liter twin turbo V8 under the hood. And AMG though is supposed to be about far more than just a big motor and straightline speed but unfortunately the new ML63 reminds us that AMG just is not quite as track focused as its rivals, Black Series notwithstanding. What kills the ML63 AMG in this comparison is that traction control just can not be turned even when the car says it is turned off.


      Yes, there is no way to permanently disable it and even pressing the button to turn it off still leaves a secondary layer of traction control. It would not be a big deal if it just was not so intrusive. How intrusive? The car automatically applies the brakes, will tighten the seatbelt, and also cut power. This makes getting a fast laptime out of what's supposed to be an AMG vehicle very difficult.

      Porsche on the other hand with the Cayenne allows one to completely disable traction control. This allows for some ridiculously impressive drifts in the Cayenne Turbo. Yes, you can actually drift a Cayenne. This clearly shows the different philosophies of the companies and Porsche proves even with its SUV it is simply much more enthusiast oriented.

      The Cayenne Turbo ends up lapping 1 second faster than the ML63 AMG. It would be interesting to see how much better the ML would be without the ridiculous electronic nannies killing the fun. Seriously AMG, what the hell? You have been doing so well lately.


      This article was originally published in forum thread: Watch the Porsche 958 Cayenne Turbo beat up the Mercedes-Benz W166 ML63 AMG around the track - Mercedes traction control can not be disabled started by Sticky View original post
      Comments 34 Comments
      1. mramg1's Avatar
        mramg1 -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sticky Click here to enlarge
        How do you know it's the same process for the new ML? And how would the average person know? Is it something in the manual that's detailed?
        Nope, not in the manual, and yes I agree with you. But IF you are a true enthuisist, you find out about these things. Not saying ANYTHING bad about him, just sayin, KNOW your vehicle my friend.
      1. mramg1's Avatar
        mramg1 -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sparky68 Click here to enlarge
        Well he probably knows about a few more than me.

        http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tiff_Needell
        Hy, I am sure he is a car nut, just sayin that not everyone knows EVERYTHING bout every car. No more, no less my friend
      1. Sparky68's Avatar
        Sparky68 -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by mramg1 Click here to enlarge
        Hy, I am sure he is a car nut, just sayin that not everyone knows EVERYTHING bout every car. No more, no less my friend
        Oh yeh i agree but, if you want a review about a car, a sucessful race driver is not a bad starting point.
      1. mramg1's Avatar
        mramg1 -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sparky68 Click here to enlarge
        Oh yeh i agree but, if you want a review about a car, a sucessful race driver is not a bad starting point.
        True, true my friend. VERY few people knopw that ALL MB's do NOT shut off there ESP UNLESS they are in dyno mode. Really pissed me off in my C32 at the track. Anyway, he is a good guy, I was just sayin that you need to know about MB's before you go playin, that's all.
      1. Sticky's Avatar
        Sticky -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by mramg1 Click here to enlarge
        Nope, not in the manual, and yes I agree with you. But IF you are a true enthuisist, you find out about these things. Not saying ANYTHING bad about him, just sayin, KNOW your vehicle my friend.
        Agreed but most people won't know and Mercedes does not disclose it so it's not quite so simple. The fact disabling it doesn't disable it... well, that says a lot.
      1. inlineS54B32's Avatar
        inlineS54B32 -
        I am curious if this guy is on this forum (reason for this post)... I was driving on the skyway (90) towards Indiana - and at the second toll booth coming out of Chicago - I noticed a black AMG ML63 (debadged)... We both exited the toll booth at the same time (he must have seen me - he sorta "waited") - and I got on it when I realized what was going on. I swear to God - that SUV is RIDICULOUSLY fast. I could not believe something that big and heavy could keep up with me. From 0-40 he was probably 2-3 cars behind, 40-100 maybe dropped to ~5 - after this, walked away - but VERY slowly. That SUV is insanely powerful - I couldn't believe it. I was in my nearly stock M3. Cool guy - I was trying to wave him off at my exit, but not sure he knew what I was trying to do. Anyways - point is, that's a VERY quick SUV.
      1. Sticky's Avatar
        Sticky -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by inlineS54B32 Click here to enlarge
        I am curious if this guy is on this forum
        Doubt it. Still, yes, very fast SUV. And with a tune... Click here to enlarge
      1. whoosh's Avatar
        whoosh -
        Fun video, but hard to draw conclusions about relative performance outside of the AMG's nanny electronics.

        This is what always bothers me about the 5th Gear comparison tests - they always switch drivers when they switch cars. I didn't recognize the young kid here, but I know in previous seasons they had Jason Plato as a presenter, who is certainly no slouch of a driver. Tiff is getting on in years and has had many years since his professional career. How do we know that the driver isn't making the difference here?

        And you'd think they could spring for Harry's Lap Timer on the iPhone instead of having the passenger use the stopwatch manually...

        I guess the show is more about entertainment than true performance comparisons, which is fine if that's their goal.
      1. Sticky's Avatar
        Sticky -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by whoosh Click here to enlarge
        This is what always bothers me about the 5th Gear comparison tests - they always switch drivers when they switch cars.
        Ya it's not the best and the Iphone timing... I mean come on, these are professionals.

        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by whoosh Click here to enlarge
        I guess the show is more about entertainment than true performance comparisons, which is fine if that's their goal.
        It's not how I would do it, that's for sure.
      1. Remonster's Avatar
        Remonster -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by mramg1 Click here to enlarge
        Nope, not in the manual, and yes I agree with you. But IF you are a true enthuisist, you find out about these things. Not saying ANYTHING bad about him, just sayin, KNOW your vehicle my friend.
        Tiff was just reviewing the car as Mercedes sells it. You should be angry at Mercedes (and so should all enthusiasts) for thinking they know better than us and designing the ML63 with such unnecessary and over the top safety features that can't be easily disabled. If I pay for the car, it should do whatever I tell it to ESPECIALLY if it's going to be sold as an AMG and especially if they hope to be taken seriously as a competitor to Porsche who has proven itself to be the king of giving the driver full control.
      1. Sticky's Avatar
        Sticky -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Remonster Click here to enlarge
        Tiff was just reviewing the car as Mercedes sells it. You should be angry at Mercedes (and so should all enthusiasts) for thinking they know better than us and designing the ML63 with such unnecessary and over the top safety features that can't be easily disabled. If I pay for the car, it should do whatever I tell it to ESPECIALLY if it's going to be sold as an AMG and especially if they hope to be taken seriously as a competitor to Porsche who has proven itself to be the king of giving the driver full control.
        I definitely have to lean toward agreeing with this. It's an AMG...
      1. LZH's Avatar
        LZH -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by mramg1 Click here to enlarge
        True, true my friend. VERY few people knopw that ALL MB's do NOT shut off there ESP UNLESS they are in dyno mode. Really pissed me off in my C32 at the track. Anyway, he is a good guy, I was just sayin that you need to know about MB's before you go playin, that's all.
        Not true. When I shut the ESP off in my black series, it's OFF completely. I've been totally opposite lock at 150mph with no intrusion of the traction control or brakes whatsoever.
      1. mramg1's Avatar
        mramg1 -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by LZH Click here to enlarge
        Not true. When I shut the ESP off in my black series, it's OFF completely. I've been totally opposite lock at 150mph with no intrusion of the traction control or brakes whatsoever.
        Since I have never owned or driven in a Black, I should have stated that ALL MB's that I have owned or driven do not shut it off completly with the ESB button. Thanks for teaching an old dog a new trick.

        And it is nice to know that MB did it right in at least one line of their cars. Espically their top dog line, LOL
      1. LZH's Avatar
        LZH -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by mramg1 Click here to enlarge
        Since I have never owned or driven in a Black, I should have stated that ALL MB's that I have owned or driven do not shut it off completly with the ESB button. Thanks for teaching an old dog a new trick.

        And it is nice to know that MB did it right in at least one line of their cars. Espically their top dog line, LOL
        Yeah it's obviously not something they ever advertised and you would only know it if you drove one. I'm not sure if the other black series cars are the same, but they got the electronics right with the CLK BS cause when you turn the ESP "OFF", it's gone...and so are you if you don't know what you are doing. Click here to enlarge