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    • And the BMW N54 horsepower record officially stands at 725 wheel horsepower - E92 335i with Vargas VTX-R 63 Stage 3 turbo upgrade, Cobb Flash, and PTF Pro Tune

      Well, it seems the back and forth of N54 tuning horsepower records is over... for now. Earlier this month Vargas Turbo Tech and Pro Tuning Freaks (with a Cobb flash) set the N54 hosrepower record at 693 wheel horsepower. That basically obliterated what anyone else had hit on this platform. A competing tuner with a single turbo (the Vargas VTX63 upgrade consists of twin turbos) N54 upgrade kit out of nowhere pulled out suspect numbers that eeked out a few more wheel horsepower.

      This became an ego pissing match of sorts but Vargas and Pro Tuning Freaks went back to the dyno to make some adjustments and managed to surprisingly quickly and easily take the horsepower record right back (and where it rightfully belongs due to the breakthrough being thanks to the Vargas work with the High Pressure Fuel Pump) with a 725 wheel horsepower pull.

      A video is included below along with two graphs. The E92 335i is equipped with a Pro Tuning Freaks pro tuning using the Cobb flash system, 109 octane race gas, meth injection, and of course the Vargas Turbo Technologies VTX-R 63 (GTX2863R) twin turbo upgrade and HPFP upgrade.

      Congratulations to Vargas, PTF, and Cobb for pushing the platform into new territory.






      This article was originally published in forum thread: Final VTT VTX63R Testing 725 WHP / 609WTQ PTF Pro Tune / COBB Flash started by VargasTurboTech View original post
      Comments 407 Comments
      1. AltecBX's Avatar
        AltecBX -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by E90Company Click here to enlarge
        You've got it wrong

        Attachment 29905


        Click here to enlarge
        Click here to enlarge
      1. onurleft's Avatar
        onurleft -
        People argue trap speeds and 60-130 based on the information that's been presented by each party when in reality ALL you need is the information from the tuners.

        The car that flows more air in and out will go faster, all other things constant. This is really all you need, and there are no discrepancies analyzing this vs. the contrary.
      1. LostMarine's Avatar
        LostMarine -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by onurleft Click here to enlarge
        People argue trap speeds and 60-130 based on the information that's been presented by each party when in reality ALL you need is the information from the tuners.

        The car that flows more air in and out will go faster, all other things constant. This is really all you need, and there are no discrepancies analyzing this vs. the contrary.
        then, how are there multiple 127-129mph RB cars, 1 130+ ST car, and multiple 125mph ST cars.. the discrepancy is too much.
      1. onurleft's Avatar
        onurleft -
        Stop arguing the contrary if you are having trouble with discrepancies. What you said not only doesn't make sense it really doesn't address anything I said. Elaborate.
      1. LostMarine's Avatar
        LostMarine -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by onurleft Click here to enlarge
        People argue trap speeds and 60-130 based on the information that's been presented by each party when in reality ALL you need is the information from the tuners.


        ST tuner discrepency- tuners results are above and beyond what paying customers can achieve
        RB turbo customers and tuners achieve similar results


        The car that flows more air in and out will go faster, all other things constant. This is really all you need, and there are no discrepancies analyzing this vs. the contrary.
        ST cars are not much, if ANY faster than RB cars , so theories and data from tuners is inconsistent in real-world results
        simplified Click here to enlarge
      1. Sered's Avatar
        Sered -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by onurleft Click here to enlarge
        People argue trap speeds and 60-130 based on the information that's been presented by each party when in reality ALL you need is the information from the tuners.

        The car that flows more air in and out will go faster, all other things constant. This is really all you need, and there are no discrepancies analyzing this vs. the contrary.
        I think LM handled it. But seriously, step back; there's a reason people want these numbers, and it's not because they don't know the things you just said.
      1. benzy89's Avatar
        benzy89 -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by onurleft Click here to enlarge
        People argue trap speeds and 60-130 based on the information that's been presented by each party when in reality ALL you need is the information from the tuners.

        The car that flows more air in and out will go faster, all other things constant. This is really all you need, and there are no discrepancies analyzing this vs. the contrary.
        You ever heard of the term "Dyno Queen"? Just because the data & dyno numbers are there, there are NO guarantees that the data + dyno sheet will translate into real world, usable power.
      1. Sered's Avatar
        Sered -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by benzy89 Click here to enlarge
        You ever heard of the term "Dyno Queen". Just because the data & dyno numbers are there, there are NO guarantees that the data + dyno sheet will translate into real world, usable power.
        ^^^ This.
      1. bobS's Avatar
        bobS -
        You shouldn't have to make excuses for a kit, the numbers, track times, etc should speak for themselves....the ST has been anything but impressive IMO. Its not something I'd pay money for that's for sure.
      1. nafoo's Avatar
        nafoo -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by onurleft Click here to enlarge
        People argue trap speeds and 60-130 based on the information that's been presented by each party when in reality ALL you need is the information from the tuners.

        The car that flows more air in and out will go faster, all other things constant. This is really all you need, and there are no discrepancies analyzing this vs. the contrary.
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by onurleft Click here to enlarge
        Stop arguing the contrary if you are having trouble with discrepancies. What you said not only doesn't make sense it really doesn't address anything I said. Elaborate.
        The stupidity of your posts do not deserve responses.
      1. Sticky's Avatar
        Sticky -
        What is he $#@!ing problem here? I'll rent an airstrip line the $#@!ing cars up.
      1. 654's Avatar
        654 -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by benzy89 Click here to enlarge
        You ever heard of the term "Dyno Queen"? Just because the data & dyno numbers are there, there are NO guarantees that the data + dyno sheet will translate into real world, usable power.
        Dyno data is directly derived from the acceleration data on the rollers. One gear pull on the rollers and one gear pull on the street should match nicely. This is why virtual data works as far as the parameters are right and road is level. 60-130mph has just one shift typically meaning no chances to screw much. So it relates quite well with the dyno. A lot of turbo power together with slow spool does not guarantee nice ETs because the outcome is dependent on other factors. Especially 6MT N54s with a lot of power have high variance in 1/4. So, dyno figures translate into performance only in cases where the external variables can be controlled.
      1. benzy89's Avatar
        benzy89 -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by 654 Click here to enlarge
        Dyno data is directly derived from the acceleration data on the rollers. One gear pull on the rollers and one gear pull on the street should match nicely. This is why virtual data works as far as the parameters are right and road is level. 60-130mph has just one shift typically meaning no chances to screw much. So it relates quite well with the dyno. A lot of turbo power together with slow spool does not guarantee nice ETs because the outcome is dependent on other factors. Especially 6MT N54s with a lot of power have high variance in 1/4. So, dyno figures translate into performance only in cases where the external variables can be controlled.
        Taking performance #s off a dyno will give you a "baseline", but it certainly shouldn't be taken as the best, most accurate performance measurement. Here are my 3 biggest problems of using a dyno to measure acceleration :
        1. The problems with dynos is 99% of the dynos used are not wheel hub dynos, which likely will mean there is a less than 100% traction between the wheels & roller. Also, not only can tire size impact values on a dyno, but tire compound can alter results (article posted on the PTF Blog going into further detail).
        2. The stress on the drivetrain (especially an AWD car) is significantly higher on a dyno then it is on the road, specifically because of the resistance. Naturally this will impact your times.
        3. What kind of dynos are we talking about -- Inertia vs. Load. Even besides that, if the dyno operates with a fluid, the longer duration of the pulls, the viscosity of the hydrolic fluid often changes altering the results (Higher temperature = Less viscosity = Less resistance = "Better" results).No matter what road you're on, the resistance between the tires & pavement is a constant + won't change (resistance doesn't decrease as you continue the pull, aiding in acceleration).


        With most 60-130 results, people come "rolling" through 60 (60 isn't the "starting" speed), so at that point the are in the optimal accelerating gear & have already built up boost (if FI'd). We also need to remember that 1st & foremost, dynos are a tuning tool and you should take performance numbers with a grain of salt because of the lack of consistency from one dyno to another. Yes, I know that acceleration should be constant regardless of what dyno you're on, but there's no way to guarantee that.


        Bottom line, 60-130 times are a combination of showcasing area under the curve + gearing, and you're never going to accurately simulate road conditions on a dyno.
      1. 654's Avatar
        654 -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by benzy89 Click here to enlarge
        Taking performance #s off a dyno will give you a "baseline", but it certainly shouldn't be taken as the best, most accurate performance measurement. Here are my 3 biggest problems of using a dyno to measure acceleration :
        1. The problems with dynos is 99% of the dynos used are not wheel hub dynos, which likely will mean there is a less than 100% traction between the wheels & roller. Also, not only can tire size impact values on a dyno, but tire compound can alter results (article posted on the PTF Blog going into further detail).
        2. The stress on the drivetrain (especially an AWD car) is significantly higher on a dyno then it is on the road, specifically because of the resistance. Naturally this will impact your times.
        3. What kind of dynos are we talking about -- Inertia vs. Load. Even besides that, if the dyno operates with a fluid, the longer duration of the pulls, the viscosity of the hydrolic fluid often changes altering the results (Higher temperature = Less viscosity = Less resistance = "Better" results).No matter what road you're on, the resistance between the tires & pavement is a constant + won't change (resistance doesn't decrease as you continue the pull, aiding in acceleration).


        With most 60-130 results, people come "rolling" through 60 (60 isn't the "starting" speed), so at that point the are in the optimal accelerating gear & have already built up boost (if FI'd). We also need to remember that 1st & foremost, dynos are a tuning tool and you should take performance numbers with a grain of salt because of the lack of consistency from one dyno to another. Yes, I know that acceleration should be constant regardless of what dyno you're on, but there's no way to guarantee that.


        Bottom line, 60-130 times are a combination of showcasing area under the curve + gearing, and you're never going to accurately simulate road conditions on a dyno.
        While most of this is true, there are similar amount of more crucial uncontrollable variables in the real world. There are uphills, downhills, head wind, tail wind and most of the factors you mentioned above have an impact in the street as well, traction, tyre compound etc etc.

        There is no perfect data from any one point that can represent the performance in the real world.
      1. xbox_fan's Avatar
        xbox_fan -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by 654 Click here to enlarge
        While most of this is true, there are similar amount of more crucial uncontrollable variables in the real world. There are uphills, downhills, head wind, tail wind and most of the factors you mentioned above have an impact in the street as well, traction, tyre compound etc etc.

        There is no perfect data from any one point that can represent the performance in the real world.
        Agreed but 60-130 and 1/4 mile times/traps are at least data collected in the "real world" with someone driving the car on the road, not on rollers with a big fan Click here to enlarge
      1. 654's Avatar
        654 -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by xbox_fan Click here to enlarge
        Agreed but 60-130 and 1/4 mile times/traps are at least data collected in the "real world" with someone driving the car on the road, not on rollers with a big fan Click here to enlarge
        They are like different sports. Some compete with dyno figures, others with 1/4 and both are nice to follow even for those who won't attend in these sports. For me the real world measure is the lap time at the local track. Different sports require different things, for dyno sports you do engine and turbo modding and tuning, for 1/4 you do some more stuff other than the power only and driver is a factor as well, for racing it is a lot about the driver skill and even less about the car. However, the car is a major element also in the latter sports. On the other hand, lap time is also the most covering performance measure of a car. It's about the power, suspension aerodynamics, brakes etc.
      1. Carl Morris's Avatar
        Carl Morris -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by 654 Click here to enlarge
        On the other hand, lap time is also the most covering performance measure of a car.
        Even with lap times you have the hard core guys with cars that can go all out for a full tank of gas versus the "1 lap wonders" who can cut a good lap time but the brakes will give out soon after.

        I just enjoy a fast car. I don't need it to be faster than yours.
      1. Sered's Avatar
        Sered -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Carl Morris Click here to enlarge
        Even with lap times you have the hard core guys with cars that can go all out for a full tank of gas versus the "1 lap wonders" who can cut a good lap time but the brakes will give out soon after.

        I just enjoy a fast car. I don't need it to be faster than yours.
        Yeah the pole position vs the actual winner Click here to enlarge
      1. V8Bait's Avatar
        V8Bait -
        We need to start a poll. What picks up more girls?

        1) Dyno numbers
        2) 1/4 mile or 60-130mph time
        4) lap times
        5) hellaflush

        That is the kit I ultimately want.

        If I go stage three will I get a free model girlfriend @VargasTurboTech?
      1. Sticky's Avatar
        Sticky -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by V8Bait Click here to enlarge
        We need to start a poll. What picks up more girls?
        A prancing horse.