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    • F80 M3 / F82 M4 testing at the ring shows off the new S55 turbo inline-6 exhaust note - New M3/M4 sounds average? Comparison to E92 M3 S65 V8

      It is no secret the switch to turbo motors for the BMW M division has brought along with it some issues that upset M purists. A recent comparison between the classic naturally aspirated M exhaust note in the E60 M5 versus the new turbo exhaust note in the F10 M5 highlighted a glaring difference in sound quality. Do not forget, the F10 M5 is receiving a revised exhaust system so BMW themselves recognizes the exhaust note in their latest M cars has not exactly been up to the standards they set themselves.


      Let's be honest, the new M5 even fakes its exhaust sound with synthetic noise piped into the cabin so things have gone a bit off the rails at M. BMW recognizes its latest M missteps so this should bode well for the exhaust note of the new F80 M3 and F82 M4. The video below is the clearest sound yet of the upcoming new M cars.

      Take a listen:


      How do you feel? It seems to be a bit more uncorked than the F10 M5 factory note was but still has a low pitched drone sound quality to it. Spectacular? No. Passable? Sure.

      Now take a listen to a compilation of the E92 M3 S65 V8 exhaust note:


      Is it even a contest? If fuel economy and cost saving matters more than emotion at M these days, so be it. But something has been lost in translation.

      This article was originally published in forum thread: F80 M3 / F82 M4 testing at the ring shows off the new S55 turbo inline-6 exhaust note - New M3/M4 sounds average? Comparison to E92 M3 S65 V8 started by Sticky View original post
      Comments 161 Comments
      1. E90Company's Avatar
        E90Company -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sticky Click here to enlarge
        It's not what I think. It's a fact that the Maserati V8 does not equal the Ferrari V8 and that due to this they do not sound the same. Your implication that the Maserati V8 sounds better because it is a Ferrari V8 is incorrect. Fact. This is not subjective and you still don't understand why but I have faith it will click eventually.
        I was referencing the stupidity comment you made about what you "think" in bold, not motors. Look at previous quote...

        What is fact is that a Maserati V8 IS a Ferrari V8 because Ferrari manufactures it. They don't sound the same? In reference to what, a different Ferrari motor? Of course it wouldn't sound similar. An S65 dousn't sound like an N62 yet they are both BMW V8's. You seem to make eroneous connections to a certain Ferrari motor's sound, which is wrong and not the point at all. You are on the right track, that fact isn't subjective. "Did it click?" Click here to enlarge

        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sticky Click here to enlarge
        A step forward. Now realize the Maserati motors are separate from the Ferrari motors and what separates them is why they don't sound the same. Let's see if you finally pick up on this.
        Look at the post above. It's a very simple concept to grasp.

        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sticky Click here to enlarge
        And once again, here we go, what does the plant have to do with anything? The Maserati sounds better than the S65 because it's built in the Ferrari plant? Huh?
        What are you talking about? Never said that. You are coming up with your own sentences. The Maserati sounds better than your S65 because Ferrari manufactures the motor. Yes, it so happens Ferrari motors are produced in Ferrari plants...
      1. Sticky's Avatar
        Sticky -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by E90Company Click here to enlarge
        What is fact is that a Maserati V8 IS a Ferrari V8 because Ferrari manufactures it. They don't sound the same? In reference to what, a different Ferrari motor? Of course it wouldn't sound similar.
        It is not a Ferrari V8 because it isn't the same design as the Ferrari V8. The parent company is actually FIAT so by your definition it's a FIAT V8 once again.

        The whole reason you mentioned Ferrari was trying to piggyback off their motor sounds equating them to Maserati or did you forget?

        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by E90Company Click here to enlarge
        Look at the post above. It's a very simple concept to grasp.
        Then why aren't you grasping it?

        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by E90Company Click here to enlarge
        What are you talking about? Never said that. You are coming up with your own sentences. The Maserati sounds better than your S65 because Ferrari manufactures the motor. Yes, it so happens Ferrari motors are produced in Ferrari plants...
        You implied it or what was the point of bringing up how the Maserati is a 'Ferrari' motor in the first place? Just an interesting factoid to toss out there?

        You're backpedaling now as you should be.
      1. benzy89's Avatar
        benzy89 -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sticky Click here to enlarge
        Really? What is it?
        It was a very limited release, true special edition M3 that never saw the US shores. Without question, there is a big difference between a normal E46 M3 (even one with an SMG trans) and a CSL
      1. E90Company's Avatar
        E90Company -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sticky Click here to enlarge
        It is not a Ferrari V8 because it isn't the same design as the Ferrari V8. The parent company is actually FIAT so by your definition it's a FIAT V8 once again.

        The whole reason you mentioned Ferrari was trying to piggyback off their motor sounds equating them to Maserati or did you forget?
        Wrong and way out of context. Nobody is forgetting anything, except you when you don't read my statements correctly. By fact Ferrari motors are "Fiat Automotive" motors, very good. Fiat is a part of "Fiat Automotive" so yes they are "Fiat Automotive" engines too. NO, Ferrari motors are not built by "Fiat" parent company. I've stated this already...

        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sticky Click here to enlarge
        Then why aren't you grasping it?
        Good question. Why arn't you? It's a simple concept.

        The only person that isn't grasping the facts is you if you don't grasp the fact that Maserati's have Ferrari built motors.

        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sticky Click here to enlarge
        You implied it or what was the point of bringing up how the Maserati is a 'Ferrari' motor in the first place? Just an interesting factoid to toss out there?

        You're backpedaling now as you should be.
        What was the point? Did you even comprehend what I wrote? Ferrari motors sound way better than an S65 ever will, and since Maserati's have Ferrari motors, Maserati's sound way better than any S65 M3. If your definition of backpedaling is answering questions that you ask to get away from the facts, then ya I guess so...
      1. Sticky's Avatar
        Sticky -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by benzy89 Click here to enlarge
        It was a very limited release, true special edition M3 that never saw the US shores. Without question, there is a big difference between a normal E46 M3 (even one with an SMG trans) and a CSL
        In weight, suspension, interior, yes.

        It's the EXACT SAME S54 motor. The changes are all external motor changes (airbox, exhaust) and in the tune. It's not some radically different thing.
      1. Sticky's Avatar
        Sticky -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by E90Company Click here to enlarge
        Wrong and way out of context. Nobody is forgetting anything, except you when you don't read my statements correctly. By fact Ferrari motors are "Fiat Automotive" motors, very good. Fiat is a part of "Fiat Automotive" so yes they are "Fiat Automotive" engines too. NO, Ferrari motors are not built by "Fiat" parent company. I've stated this already...
        It's not out of context at all. It's actually the correct analogy the Maserati motor is a Fiat motor.

        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by E90Company Click here to enlarge
        Good question. Why arn't you? It's a simple concept.

        The only person that isn't grasping the facts is you if you don't grasp the fact that Maserati's have Ferrari built motors.
        Um, I have maintained a consistent point regarding sound quality and that where the assembly of Maserati's motor takes place has nothing do do with anything at all. I'm not denying where it is assembled. So what am I not getting exactly?

        What you are not getting is that in a sound quality thread you posted about Maserati saying it is a Ferrari motor. This is supposed to bolster your sound quality claim somehow as if the Maserati is on equal footing in sound as the Ferrari. I keep telling you your premise is mistaken and you aren't getting why.

        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by E90Company Click here to enlarge
        What was the point? Did you even comprehend what I wrote? Ferrari motors sound way better than an S65 ever will, and since Maserati's have Ferrari motors, Maserati's sound way better than any S65 M3.
        Hhahaha yep that's your premise. AND IT'S WRONG.

        Do you still not get why? Do you need my help to walk you through it?
      1. dzenno@PTF's Avatar
        dzenno@PTF -
        Turbos will mute any motor. You'll see what that V8 sounds like with turbos on it. Nothing like an NA V8 straight piped that's for sure. Apples and oranges in terms of engine setup, apples to apples given both are M3s
      1. Sticky's Avatar
        Sticky -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by dzenno@PTF Click here to enlarge
        You'll see what that V8 sounds like with turbos on it.
        I'll let you know once I see it in person.
      1. benzy89's Avatar
        benzy89 -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sticky Click here to enlarge
        In weight, suspension, interior, yes.

        It's the EXACT SAME S54 motor. The changes are all external motor changes (airbox, exhaust) and in the tune. It's not some radically different thing.
        The same could be said for the M3 GTS -- Excluding the minor additional displacement (which could be done for supercharger money), it's still an S65 and it's still just a DCT equipped E92 M3
      1. E90Company's Avatar
        E90Company -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sticky Click here to enlarge
        It's not out of context at all. It's actually the correct analogy the Maserati motor is a Fiat motor.
        Yes Maserati has a motor built by Ferrari, and Ferrari is owned by "Fiat Automotive" therefore all Ferrari motors are "Fiat Automotive" motors. Finally you get it!! Click here to enlarge Proud of you, though it took awhile to sink in. You're making progress.

        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sticky Click here to enlarge
        Um, I have maintained a consistent point regarding sound quality and that where the assembly of Maserati's motor takes place has nothing do do with anything at all. I'm not denying where it is assembled. So what am I not getting exactly?

        What you are not getting is that in a sound quality thread you posted about Maserati saying it is a Ferrari motor. This is supposed to bolster your sound quality claim somehow as if the Maserati is on equal footing in sound as the Ferrari. I keep telling you your premise is mistaken and you aren't getting why.
        LMFAO. That's not even a question you should be asking looking at your previous posts you've made (although you ARE making progress and I'm proud of you). Let me reiterate so we can maybe help it sink in:

        Maserati's motors are built BY Ferrari in Ferrari's plant. Glad you get it, we're making a bunch of progress with this last post you made. What you arn't getting and never have as of yet is the fact that Maserati's sound quality is much better than an S65 ever has been, because Ferrari motors kill the sounds an S65 makes period. I don't think you will ever get it but i'm trying to help you... Equal footing? What a joke. It's a sound comparison thread Click here to enlarge

        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sticky Click here to enlarge
        Hhahaha yep that's your premise. AND IT'S WRONG.

        Do you still not get why? Do you need my help to walk you through it?
        Hahahaha the funny thing is your premise is an S65 sounds better than a Ferrari motor WHICH IS WRONG. You have a motor that can't compete with the sound quality of Ferrari's motors ever, period. That's the whole point of the thread anyways right? What sounds better? Do I need to walk you through the order? OK I will:

        M4<S65<<<<<<<<Ferrari Motors

        Period. End of conversation really unless you need to keep denying the truth.
      1. Sticky's Avatar
        Sticky -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by benzy89 Click here to enlarge
        The same could be said for the M3 GTS -- Excluding the minor additional displacement (which could be done for supercharger money), it's still an S65 and it's still just a DCT equipped E92 M3
        The same can't be said for the M3 GTS because it has significant internal changes.

        You can turn your E46 M3 into a CSL without going inside the motor.
      1. Sticky's Avatar
        Sticky -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by E90Company Click here to enlarge
        Yes Maserati has a motor built by Ferrari, and Ferrari is owned by "Fiat Automotive" therefore all Ferrari motors are "Fiat Automotive" motors. Finally you get it!! Proud of you, though it took awhile to sink in. You're making progress.
        I never claimed otherwise. I claimed this has nothing to do with anything and it still doesn't. You're not making progress.

        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by E90Company Click here to enlarge
        Maserati's motors are built BY Ferrari in Ferrari's plant. Glad you get it, we're making a bunch of progress with this last post you made. What you arn't getting and never have as of yet is the fact that Maserati's sound quality is much better than an S65 ever has been, because Ferrari motors kill the sounds an S65 makes period. I don't think you will ever get it but i'm trying to help you... Equal footing? What a joke. It's a sound comparison thread
        Ok time to make you look stupid. I gave you enough chances.

        Maserati motors are not Ferrari motors. With the F430 Ferrari used the Maserati block. Yes, Ferrari motors sound amazing. Do you want to know why? Because they rev to 9k AND HAVE A FLAT-PLANE CRANK.

        Do you know what that is? Here:

        Click here to enlarge

        Get it? The Maserati motors DO NOT HAVE A FLAT-PLANE CRANK. They are cross-plane, just like the S65 V8.

        Do you see why you're so damn stupid for arguing with me now that they are the same thing and that the Maserati motor sounds "better" because the Ferrari motor does? IT ISN'T THE SAME ENGINE DESIGN. WHERE IT'S BUILT DOESN'T MATTER.

        PAY ATTENTION:

        The F430's 483-hp V-8--722cc and 88 horses angrier than the 360's--is part of a new family of V-8 screamers in the Maserati Coupé and Quattroporte. The commonality lies mainly in the block casting, says powertrain director Jean-Jacques His, where the engines share their 90-degree vee and five-main-bearing architecture. Variable intake- and exhaust-valve timing, plus the bore spacing of 104 millimeters, is also found in the Ferrari Enzo's V-12, which descends from the same family. A detuned version of that V-12 will eventually go into the 612 Scaglietti and replacement for the 575M Maranello.

        As in the 360 Modena, this new F430 is the only Ferrari or Maserati to use a flat-plane crankshaft. That means half of its connecting-rod journals line up directly opposite the other half, making the crank look as flat as a dash mark when viewed head-on. Most V-8s, including Maserati's own version of the motor, have a two-plane crank that looks like an X and spaces the rod journals at 90-degree intervals for smoothness. Ferrari says the flat way, which mimics two inline fours joined at the hip, increases vibration but pays benefits in breathing and power production. It also grinds a particular edge into the Ferrari's bark at high revs.
        While production V8 engines use four crank throws spaced 90° apart, high-performance V8 engines often use a "flat" crankshaft with throws spaced 180° apart. The difference can be heard as the flat-plane crankshafts result in the engine having a smoother, higher-pitched sound than cross-plane (for example, IRL IndyCar Series compared to NASCAR Sprint Cup Series, or a Ferrari 355 compared to a Chevrolet Corvette).
        So that awesome Ferrari sound? It doesn't apply to the Maserati. It doesn't matter where it's built. It doesn't matter if the Ferrari CEO tattoos Maserati on his buttocks it is completely irrelevant to the point.

        So your entire premise is mistaken, this point never clicked for you, and you have been proven completely wrong. I led you to water, couldn't make you drink. Why you would argue with me for pages while holding a false premise when I kept telling you the reason why you were wrong I have no clue. Now take that laughing face smiley and apply it to yourself. You're beyond wrong, you look like a fool.

        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by E90Company Click here to enlarge
        End of conversation really
        Sure is.
      1. E90Company's Avatar
        E90Company -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sticky Click here to enlarge
        I never claimed otherwise. I claimed this has nothing to do with anything and it still doesn't. You're not making progress.
        I'm not the one that needs to make progress. You're just making yourself look more and more like a baseless fool with these posts. I thought you were making progress, but apparently not so lets start over YET AGAIN:

        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sticky Click here to enlarge
        Ok time to make you look stupid. I gave you enough chances.

        Maserati motors are not Ferrari motors.
        You arn't making anyone look stupid except yourself when you agree Ferrari motors are "Fiat Automotive" motors in one post yet you say something completely different and wrong here, so which is it? Get your story straight and stop jumping around with what you think is fact and what isn't. That's whats pathetic and stupid here. That's it.

        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sticky Click here to enlarge
        With the F430 Ferrari used the Maserati block. Yes, Ferrari motors sound amazing. Do you want to know why? Because they rev to 9k AND HAVE A FLAT-PLANE CRANK.

        Do you know what that is? Here:

        Get it? The Maserati motors DO NOT HAVE A FLAT-PLANE CRANK. They are cross-plane, just like the S65 V8.

        Do you see why you're so damn stupid for arguing with me now that they are the same thing and that the Maserati motor sounds "better" because the Ferrari motor does. IT ISN'T THE SAME ENGINE DESIGN. WHERE IT'S BUILT DOESN'T MATTER.
        What are you saying right now? I don't care about the similarities between the Quattroporte motor and F430 motor because THAT'S NOT WHAT WE ARE COMPARING OR TALKING ABOUT, AT ALL. Are you seriously this dense? I've repeated it so many times I can't even count the posts up and you still don't get it?. "Maserati motors are built by Ferrari in Ferrari's plant." I can care less about what motor has a flat plane crank because it dousn't matter in this context at all. I am proud of you for finally attempting to use some fact to back your posts up but you failed here.

        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sticky Click here to enlarge
        So that awesome Ferrari sound? It doesn't apply to the Maserati. It doesn't matter where it's built.

        So your entire premise is mistaken, this point never clicked for you, and you have been proven completely wrong. I led you to water, couldn't make you drink. Why you would argue with me for pages while holding a false premise when I kept telling you the reason why you were wrong I have no clue. Now take that laughing face smiley and apply it to yourself. You're beyond wrong, you look like a fool.
        Like I said I am proud of you. Finally at least attempting to use fact to prove your points rather than asking hypotheticals to get away from the facts. Anyhow I guess we have to go through this yet again. READ THE ABOVE we were never comparing different Ferrari motors with each other and you completely missed the point. The motors Ferrari builds for Maserati have an awesome sound because they are Ferrari motors that sound way better than an S65. It never clicked for you. I don't think it ever will. Also look up the definition of premise and fact because you are sadly mistaken by a large margin.

        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sticky Click here to enlarge
        Sure is.
        Glad you agree. So you don't need to reply any further. End of conversation.
      1. Sticky's Avatar
        Sticky -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by E90Company Click here to enlarge
        I'm not the one that needs to make progress. You're just making yourself look more and more like a baseless fool with these posts. I thought you were making progress, but apparently not so lets start over YET AGAIN:



        You arn't making anyone look stupid except yourself when you agree Ferrari motors are "Fiat Automotive" motors in one post yet you say something completely different and wrong here, so which is it? Get your story straight and stop jumping around with what you think is fact and what isn't. That's whats pathetic and stupid here. That's it.



        What are you saying right now? I don't care about the similarities between the Quattroporte motor and F430 motor because THAT'S NOT WHAT WE ARE COMPARING OR TALKING ABOUT, AT ALL. Are you seriously this dense? I've repeated it so many times I can't even count the posts up and you still don't get it?. "Maserati motors are built by Ferrari in Ferrari's plant." I can care less about what motor has a flat plane crank because it dousn't matter in this context at all. I am proud of you for finally attempting to use some fact to back your posts up but you failed here.



        Like I said I am proud of you. Finally at least attempting to use fact to prove your points rather than asking hypotheticals to get away from the facts. Anyhow I guess we have to go through this yet again. READ THE ABOVE we were never comparing different Ferrari motors with each other and you completely missed the point. The motors Ferrari builds for Maserati have an awesome sound because they are Ferrari motors that sound way better than an S65. It never clicked for you. I don't think it ever will. Also look up the definition of premise and fact because you are sadly mistaken by a large margin.



        Glad you agree. So you don't need to reply any further. End of conversation.
        You would gain more sympathy and respect by simply manning up, admitting your mistake, and moving on. It's ok. I realize it's the harder thing to do but not everyone can do it.
      1. Sticky's Avatar
        Sticky -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by E90Company Click here to enlarge
        Ferrari motors sound way better than an S65 ever will, and since Maserati's have Ferrari motors, Maserati's sound way better than any S65 M3.
        Quote of the year so far? Maybe.
      1. E90Company's Avatar
        E90Company -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sticky Click here to enlarge
        You would gain more sympathy and respect by simply manning up, admitting your mistake, and moving on. It's ok. I realize it's the harder thing to do but not everyone can do it.
        It's not a mistake by any means but I'm glad we are done here. Click here to enlarge
      1. E90Company's Avatar
        E90Company -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sticky Click here to enlarge
        Quote of the year so far? Maybe.
        Could be. It's true Click here to enlarge
      1. Sticky's Avatar
        Sticky -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by E90Company Click here to enlarge
        It's not a mistake by any means but I'm glad we are done here. Click here to enlarge
        This is not a mistake?

        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by E90Company Click here to enlarge
        Ferrari motors sound way better than an S65 ever will, and since Maserati's have Ferrari motors, Maserati's sound way better than any S65 M3.
        You sure? Here's another chance to sack up and be a man...
      1. Sticky's Avatar
        Sticky -
        E90company:

        Ferrari>M3

        Maserati=Ferrari

        So it must follow that:

        Maserati>M3

        Do you not see your logical fallacy? Really? Do you have a mental disability?
      1. Sticky's Avatar
        Sticky -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by E90Company Click here to enlarge
        I can care less about what motor has a flat plane crank because it dousn't matter in this context at all.
        You sure about that?