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    • Unconfirmed: 2015 W205 C63 AMG M177 4.0 liter turbo V8 to come in two flavors, 476 horsepower standard and a 510 horsepower C63 AMG S Performance Package

      Our report is not officially unconfirmed but it likely is accurate based on what we currently know. We know for certain the M178 4.0 liter twin turbo V8 under the hood of the AMG GT has 510 horsepower. Based on precedent, Mercedes-Benz will likely not give the C63 AMG the same horsepower as the higher end sports car. The SLS AMG had an M159 V8 with more horsepower standard than the M156 V8 in the C63 AMG. This also allowed for a Performance Package option which upped the W204 C63 output.

      The same thing looks like it will take place with the AMG GT and the W205 C63 AMG. The C63 AMG M177 V8 will get 476 horsepower to start with. This places it ahead of its rivals at least on paper. Keep in mind the new M3/M4 S55 inline-6 motors are severely underrated showing as much horsepower at the wheels as they are rated at the crank. For the Mercedes C63 with 476 horsepower to beat the M3/M4 the C63 will need to dyno at least 450 wheel horsepower considering it will not have a dual clutch transmission and that it will likely be heavier than 3562 pounds.

      If BenzBoost were to guess, the F82 M4 and W205 C63 are going to be about even in acceleration just like the the E92 M3 and W204 C63 AMG. Mercedes-Benz will offset this as they did previously with a performance package. We will have to see if the package is just software that raises output or if Mercedes is getting the same 510 horsepower as in the AMG GT M178 with actual hardware changes to the motor as they did with the P31 option on the W204 generation C63 AMG M156 V8. Let's hope they are not going for a cheap money grab and it is not just software.

      BenzBoost confirmed a performance package for the W205 almost a year ago that the industry seemed to ignore. No output figures were quoted but our source gave us the figures we are quoting now. It seems unlikely that Mercedes will exceed the AMG GT's figure of 510 horsepower as that will upset AMG GT owners and the set hierarchy. Expect around 510 for the C63 AMG S if they call it that with the option standard similar to the E63 AMG S models or they may just add the Performance Package as an option. Either way, you will be able to get more power with a Mercedes warranty attached if that is your thing.

      Regardless, despite BMW's low crank rating their cars are much more powerful than the crank horsepower rating would indicate. Mercedes-Benz is aware of this. BMW is aware that they are aware and may ready their own Performance Package option to fight back. This sure is fun, isn't it?


      This article was originally published in forum thread: Unconfirmed: 2015 W205 C63 AMG M177 4.0 liter turbo V8 to come in two flavors, 476 horsepower standard and a 510 horsepower C63 AMG S Performance Package started by Sticky View original post
      Comments 35 Comments
      1. leveraged sellout's Avatar
        leveraged sellout -
        This is what I like to hear. The fact that they still haven't decided to use a dual clutch gearbox though is just mind-blowing. I don't get it. The MCT is just not good enough anymore. One might argue it never was...but vs. a manual and DCT option on the M3/4 I just don't see what they were thinking. And it will likely be much heavier. Either way I'm very excited for this car, although if it's called the C63 I will also be disappointed a bit.
      1. Sticky's Avatar
        Sticky -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by leveraged sellout Click here to enlarge
        The fact that they still haven't decided to use a dual clutch gearbox though is just mind-blowing. I don't get it.
        I get it. Cost, warranty, and people will tune it. The AMG GT has to be a sports car so it needs it. Plus the gearbox will basically be the same thing as the SLS so they already invested.

        What DCT gearbox does Mercedes source for rear wheel drive twin turbo cars? None. The rear transaxle setup to improve weight distribution is why the AMG GT gets it but you can't use that on the C63.
      1. ezec63's Avatar
        ezec63 -
        I wouldn't call the e92 vs w204 c63 acceleration even .. Compare a facelift C63 with p31 against a facelift e92 m3 with competition package and its not even close especially in trap speed. You must be kidding if you think the s55 will be as fast as the m177 I mean look at how much Mercedes is under rating the E63 s motor trend tested it at alomsot 600 AWHP. This motor was developed with the flagship sports car in mind has 2 extra cylinders + 33% more displacement there is no doubt in my mind it will out perform the m3/4 in straight line acceleration. MB also claimed 200 pounds of weight saving for the w205 which should bring it into the 37xx range. 1xx pounds wont make up the difference in power and obviously the bigger displacement v8 will have more wiggle room in tuning since they'll hold it back not to step on its bigger brothers toes just as they did with the w204 c63
      1. Sticky's Avatar
        Sticky -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by ezec63 Click here to enlarge
        I wouldn't call the e92 vs w204 c63 acceleration even
        I would.

        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by ezec63 Click here to enlarge
        ompare a facelift C63 with p31 against a facelift e92 m3 with competition package and its not even close especially in trap spee
        That's exactly what is stated. AMG releases a package to gain the advantage.

        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by ezec63 Click here to enlarge
        You must be kidding if you think the s55 will be as fast as the m177 I mean look at how much Mercedes is under rating the E63 s motor trend tested it at alomsot 600 AWHP
        I'm not kidding.

        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by ezec63 Click here to enlarge
        This motor was developed with the flagship sports car in mind has 2 extra cylinders + 33% more displacement there is no doubt in my mind it will out perform the m3/4 in straight line acceleration
        The M156 had a displacement advantage on the S65. It meant nothing.

        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by ezec63 Click here to enlarge
        MB also claimed 200 pounds of weight saving for the w205 which should bring it into the 37xx range. 1xx pounds wont make up the difference in power and obviously the bigger displacement v8 will have more wiggle room in tuning since they'll hold it back not to step on its bigger brothers toes just as they did with the w204 c63
        It will be heavier. The question is by how much.
      1. ezec63's Avatar
        ezec63 -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sticky Click here to enlarge
        I would.



        That's exactly what is stated. AMG releases a package to gain the advantage.



        I'm not kidding.



        The M156 had a displacement advantage on the S65. It meant nothing.



        It will be heavier. The question is by how much.
        Facelifted P31 C63's have trapped 119.x @ 11.9 at the drag strip bone stock down to tires e92 m3's aren't anywhere close stock.
        The funny part about the "package" was all they really did was open the throttle bodies up a bit more the sls internals are just an extra to justify the cost but they didn't have to try much the motor was capable of it all along they just intentionally held it back you already know this.

        The M156 is IMO a better engine than the s65 no doubt. People like to point out the BS o well BMW did it with 4.0 liters its not fair. HP per liter doesn't show me anything and doesn't prove great engineering something more impressive is HP per pound. Most people don't know this but the m156 is LIGHTER than the s65. So AMG was able to get 2.2 liter more displacement, 100 more horsepower(s63), 50% more torque, and its still stronger showing to hold almost 700whp as weistec has done many times and JRCart is running 790whp on the forged C63 BS. Yup it def meant nothing your not being biased or anything at all

        There is no doubt it will be heavier then 3600 pounds. Like you said the question is by how much and I highly doubt it will be enough to overcome the HP advantage it will hold. Both top shelf engine built by performance division one with 2 extra cylinders and 33% more displacement. Both spool the turbos at the same rpm (1850) which shows me the turbos are bigger on the m177 if the higher displacement motor spools them at the same time. & the redline advantage is only 300 rpm but the m4 will short shift at 7K anyway as we've seen. Nothing is sure until we see results but if I was a betting man my $$ would be on the m177
      1. Sticky's Avatar
        Sticky -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by ezec63 Click here to enlarge
        Facelifted P31 C63's have trapped 119.x @ 11.9 at the drag strip bone stock down to tires e92 m3's aren't anywhere close stock.
        The funny part about the "package" was all they really did was open the throttle bodies up a bit more the sls internals are just an extra to justify the cost but they didn't have to try much the motor was capable of it all along they just intentionally held it back you already know this.

        The M156 is IMO a better engine than the s65 no doubt. People like to point out the BS o well BMW did it with 4.0 liters its not fair. HP per liter doesn't show me anything and doesn't prove great engineering something more impressive is HP per pound. Most people don't know this but the m156 is LIGHTER than the s65. So AMG was able to get 2.2 liter more displacement, 100 more horsepower(s63), 50% more torque, and its still stronger showing to hold almost 700whp as weistec has done many times and JRCart is running 790whp on the forged C63 BS. Yup it def meant nothing your not being biased or anything at all

        There is no doubt it will be heavier then 3600 pounds. Like you said the question is by how much and I highly doubt it will be enough to overcome the HP advantage it will hold. Both top shelf engine built by performance division one with 2 extra cylinders and 33% more displacement. Both spool the turbos at the same rpm (1850) which shows me the turbos are bigger on the m177 if the higher displacement motor spools them at the same time. & the redline advantage is only 300 rpm but the m4 will short shift at 7K anyway as we've seen. Nothing is sure until we see results but if I was a betting man my $$ would be on the m177
        I'll get to this later I've been drinking wine since 9 AM.
      1. ezec63's Avatar
        ezec63 -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sticky Click here to enlarge
        I'll get to this later I've been drinking wine since 9 AM.
        Hehe I knew you'd have a response for me Click here to enlarge Enjoy budd ! & Don't be to harsh its my birthday woooop woooop
      1. DFM's Avatar
        DFM -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by ezec63 Click here to enlarge
        I wouldn't call the e92 vs w204 c63 acceleration even .. Compare a facelift C63 with p31 against a facelift e92 m3 with competition package and its not even close especially in trap speed. You must be kidding if you think the s55 will be as fast as the m177 I mean look at how much Mercedes is under rating the E63 s motor trend tested it at alomsot 600 AWHP. This motor was developed with the flagship sports car in mind has 2 extra cylinders + 33% more displacement there is no doubt in my mind it will out perform the m3/4 in straight line acceleration. MB also claimed 200 pounds of weight saving for the w205 which should bring it into the 37xx range. 1xx pounds wont make up the difference in power and obviously the bigger displacement v8 will have more wiggle room in tuning since they'll hold it back not to step on its bigger brothers toes just as they did with the w204 c63
        In the world of forced induction, displacement and cylinders are only part of it. area under the curve is also variable from engine to engine. By your logic the old turbo f1 engines were garbage. 4 cylinder 1500cc, must be slow.
      1. leveraged sellout's Avatar
        leveraged sellout -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sticky Click here to enlarge
        I get it. Cost, warranty, and people will tune it. The AMG GT has to be a sports car so it needs it. Plus the gearbox will basically be the same thing as the SLS so they already invested.

        What DCT gearbox does Mercedes source for rear wheel drive twin turbo cars? None. The rear transaxle setup to improve weight distribution is why the AMG GT gets it but you can't use that on the C63.
        True, but even MB owners hate the MCT now. They're all jealous of DCT, PDK, and DSG. The MCT is clunky, slow to shift, willfully disobeys inputs sometimes, and isn't as efficient at putting the power down. I really wish they'd come up with a nice 7 speed DCT for all their RWD cars, maybe even the AWD ones. Maybe they're waiting and they have something in development with more speeds...who knows. They've got that 9 speed auto coming later this year, maybe they want to match that with a 9 speed dual clutch box. I'd like to think so but I doubt it. Although Honda is doing an 8 speed DCT...with a torque converter...
      1. ezec63's Avatar
        ezec63 -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by DFM Click here to enlarge
        In the world of forced induction, displacement and cylinders are only part of it. area under the curve is also variable from engine to engine. By your logic the old turbo f1 engines were garbage. 4 cylinder 1500cc, must be slow.
        Not really. Were comparing top shelf motors built by performance divisions. Its obvious the s55 will perform better than say the cls550 motor that is a 4.7L V8 TT. That motor has more displacement but its not a performance motor built by AMG so displacement is def not everything. But given it will be AMG's best vs Bmw M's best the 2 extra cylinders and 33% more displacement is a big advantage. They can use bigger turbos to have the same spool which they do both s55 and m177 make torque from 1850 rpm. That shows me the turbos are bigger on the m177 and that will show as more top end power combined with the extra liter of displacement. The M doesn't have the rev advantage anymore either they both have very similar redlines.

        Like I said before in my last post nothing is sure but just an educated guess from details ive picked up. Makes for a good conversation lol
      1. ezec63's Avatar
        ezec63 -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by leveraged sellout Click here to enlarge
        True, but even MB owners hate the MCT now. They're all jealous of DCT, PDK, and DSG. The MCT is clunky, slow to shift, willfully disobeys inputs sometimes, and isn't as efficient at putting the power down. I really wish they'd come up with a nice 7 speed DCT for all their RWD cars, maybe even the AWD ones. Maybe they're waiting and they have something in development with more speeds...who knows. They've got that 9 speed auto coming later this year, maybe they want to match that with a 9 speed dual clutch box. I'd like to think so but I doubt it. Although Honda is doing an 8 speed DCT...with a torque converter...
        I def don't hate the MCT ... The only part I dislike is the response time of pulling the paddle to getting the shift which is software related. Once it shifts the actual shift time is blazing fast past the point where a human can really detect it. If you drove the car is S+ mode and didn't use the paddles you would absolutely love it. I have the weistec Valve Body and TCU upgrade on my car and the trans is amazing ! The tcu sped up the delay in paddle response so its not laggy and the valve body upgrade made the already fast shifts ridiculous. its still def not 100% a DCT in sharpness cant lie about that but still a very good trans.
      1. DFM's Avatar
        DFM -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by ezec63 Click here to enlarge
        Not really. Were comparing top shelf motors built by performance divisions. Its obvious the s55 will perform better than say the cls550 motor that is a 4.7L V8 TT. That motor has more displacement but its not a performance motor built by AMG so displacement is def not everything. But given it will be AMG's best vs Bmw M's best the 2 extra cylinders and 33% more displacement is a big advantage. They can use bigger turbos to have the same spool which they do both s55 and m177 make torque from 1850 rpm. That shows me the turbos are bigger on the m177 and that will show as more top end power combined with the extra liter of displacement. The M doesn't have the rev advantage anymore either they both have very similar redlines.

        Like I said before in my last post nothing is sure but just an educated guess from details ive picked up. Makes for a good conversation lol
        You are right that nothing is certain and these are educated guesses.

        The extra cylinders and displacement are beneficial for certain applications. In this application it was necessary stay competitive. The Mercedes is a heavier car with an inferior transmission. I guess I don't understand why you think the m177 will outperform the s55 in a strait line. Swap the engines into identical cars with identical transmissions and weights then yes, the m177 would likely be faster. But the m177 is in a heavier car with a slower transmission. Raw power vs efficiency, nothing has changed really.

        The m177 will likely respond to aftermarket mods better, but stock for stock who knows at this point.
      1. leveraged sellout's Avatar
        leveraged sellout -
        Do you find that the Weistec upgrade makes a big difference? I have to say I really do rather like AMG vehicles of course but the MCT turns me off. I was wondering if they were going to offer an upgrade, I didn't realize they already had!
      1. m54b25's Avatar
        m54b25 -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by DFM Click here to enlarge
        You are right that nothing is certain and these are educated guesses.

        The extra cylinders and displacement are beneficial for certain applications. In this application it was necessary stay competitive. The Mercedes is a heavier car with an inferior transmission. I guess I don't understand why you think the m177 will outperform the s55 in a strait line. Swap the engines into identical cars with identical transmissions and weights then yes, the m177 would likely be faster. But the m177 is in a heavier car with a slower transmission. Raw power vs efficiency, nothing has changed really.

        The m177 will likely respond to aftermarket mods better, but stock for stock who knows at this point.
        I would like to see a M car DCT making the torque of a AMG biturbo Benz & hold itself together. The MCT can hold even a V12 torque =) Unless you make a DCT or PDK that can hold similar torque to an Xtrac or Ricardo type. MCT will still handle the task of any TORQUE produced by an AMG biturbo. Btw, MB new 9 speed Gtronic will be better than the current 8 speed from the competition.
      1. ezec63's Avatar
        ezec63 -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by DFM Click here to enlarge
        You are right that nothing is certain and these are educated guesses.

        The extra cylinders and displacement are beneficial for certain applications. In this application it was necessary stay competitive. The Mercedes is a heavier car with an inferior transmission. I guess I don't understand why you think the m177 will outperform the s55 in a strait line. Swap the engines into identical cars with identical transmissions and weights then yes, the m177 would likely be faster. But the m177 is in a heavier car with a slower transmission. Raw power vs efficiency, nothing has changed really.

        The m177 will likely respond to aftermarket mods better, but stock for stock who knows at this point.
        The extra cylinders and displacement deff do help by allowing them to use bigger turbos giving it more power and torque without sacrificing spool/ turbo lag. The MB/AMG Has stated that the w205 will lose 200 pounds from last generation putting it in the 37xx pound range. The m4 will only be 1xx I highly doubt that will be enough to over come the power difference. Also weve seen in the E63 vs m5 videos the MCT doesn't lose any ground in between shifts to the DCT. Have you driven An MCT car?? The shifts are lightning fast it's just the paddle delay that sucks. I mean look at the e92 vs w204 c63 ... The e92 is over 300 pounds lighter has a DCT while the c63 has MCT and the c63 is still significantly faster in a straight line. I wouldn't doubt the s model c63 rated at 510 hp will put ~500 to the wheels it's going to take much more then 100-200 pounds to over come that.
      1. ezec63's Avatar
        ezec63 -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by m54b25 Click here to enlarge
        I would like to see a M car DCT making the torque of a AMG biturbo Benz & hold itself together. The MCT can hold even a V12 torque =) Unless you make a DCT or PDK that can hold similar torque to an Xtrac or Ricardo type. MCT will still handle the task of any TORQUE produced by an AMG biturbo. Btw, MB new 9 speed Gtronic will be better than the current 8 speed from the competition.
        There ya go straight from renntech ! I'm sure you would agree the MCT is a great trans and the shifts speeds are very fast. It's just the paddle delay that skews the reviews. The MCT is a stout trans probably one of the strongest transmissions in production
      1. ezec63's Avatar
        ezec63 -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by leveraged sellout Click here to enlarge
        Do you find that the Weistec upgrade makes a big difference? I have to say I really do rather like AMG vehicles of course but the MCT turns me off. I was wondering if they were going to offer an upgrade, I didn't realize they already had!
        Deff a big difference I love it ! The response time is def faster and the up shift speed is brutal ! You should really try driving a car with MCT you'll be surprised.
        it also helps the trans hold more power JRcart is running 790 whp with this basic upgrade
      1. Sticky's Avatar
        Sticky -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by ezec63 Click here to enlarge
        Facelifted P31 C63's have trapped 119.x @ 11.9 at the drag strip bone stock down to tires e92 m3's aren't anywhere close stock.
        The funny part about the "package" was all they really did was open the throttle bodies up a bit more the sls internals are just an extra to justify the cost but they didn't have to try much the motor was capable of it all along they just intentionally held it back you already know this.
        We all know the P31 is faster. That's kind of the point here though. The performance package W205 C63 will be faster than the M4. The standard W204 C63 is even with the M3 and I predict we will see the same thing from the standard W205 C63 here.

        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by ezec63 Click here to enlarge
        The M156 is IMO a better engine than the s65 no doubt. People like to point out the BS o well BMW did it with 4.0 liters its not fair. HP per liter doesn't show me anything and doesn't prove great engineering something more impressive is HP per pound. Most people don't know this but the m156 is LIGHTER than the s65. So AMG was able to get 2.2 liter more displacement, 100 more horsepower(s63), 50% more torque, and its still stronger showing to hold almost 700whp as weistec has done many times and JRCart is running 790whp on the forged C63 BS. Yup it def meant nothing your not being biased or anything at all
        It isn't the better motor and the S65 has shown far more success in Motorsport. The only reason the M156 has any advantage is due to raw displacement. You take the S85 with its 5.0 liters which is basically the exact same thing and it is without a doubt the best motor of the three.

        He's running 790 whp on the Black Series which uses SLS internals, and? The S85 with less displacement than the M156 is showing similar whp. I think that says it all.

        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by ezec63 Click here to enlarge
        There is no doubt it will be heavier then 3600 pounds. Like you said the question is by how much and I highly doubt it will be enough to overcome the HP advantage it will hold. Both top shelf engine built by performance division one with 2 extra cylinders and 33% more displacement. Both spool the turbos at the same rpm (1850) which shows me the turbos are bigger on the m177 if the higher displacement motor spools them at the same time. & the redline advantage is only 300 rpm but the m4 will short shift at 7K anyway as we've seen. Nothing is sure until we see results but if I was a betting man my $$ would be on the m177
        We'll see but my guess is the C63 and M3/M4 will be about even and then the Performance Package C63 will exceed the M3/M4. Basically the same thing as the previous generation.
      1. Sticky's Avatar
        Sticky -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by ezec63 Click here to enlarge
        Hehe I knew you'd have a response for me Click here to enlarge Enjoy budd ! & Don't be to harsh its my birthday woooop woooop
        Happy Birthday.
      1. Sticky's Avatar
        Sticky -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by leveraged sellout Click here to enlarge
        True, but even MB owners hate the MCT now. They're all jealous of DCT, PDK, and DSG. The MCT is clunky, slow to shift, willfully disobeys inputs sometimes, and isn't as efficient at putting the power down. I really wish they'd come up with a nice 7 speed DCT for all their RWD cars, maybe even the AWD ones. Maybe they're waiting and they have something in development with more speeds...who knows. They've got that 9 speed auto coming later this year, maybe they want to match that with a 9 speed dual clutch box. I'd like to think so but I doubt it. Although Honda is doing an 8 speed DCT...with a torque converter...
        I agree, DCT is superior. I understand why Mercedes is using the MCT though although if I was in charge obviously the C63 would have a dual clutch. It also would have a manual option.