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    • Has BMW slipped? Is Mercedes now the German performance enthusiast brand of choice?


      Many of us were attracted to German performance by BMW. There was a time when they made cars unlike anyone else. Cars that took no short cuts, with motors that represented the best their engineers had to offer. Now what do we have? Anti-tuning ecu's, the same motor in every car, M SUV's, FWD city cars coming, smaller and smaller motors paired with extreme brand dilution.

      While this has all been taking place, Mercedes has upped the ante. Mercedes is producing larger V8's with turbos. Mercedes is not afraid to place these motors in their lower end cars even if it steps on big brothers toes (C63 vs. E63, anyone?). Mercedes has rolled out the SLR, SLS, CLK63 Black Series, and SL65 Black Series. Rumor has it that Mercedes will put their twin turbo V8 in a black series C-coupe. If that isn't upping the ante, I do not know what is.

      BMW has announced the next generation M3 will have a 6 cylinder. While they are downsizing Mercedes is sticking a V8 in everything. They are even planning on expanding the AMG lineup and also considering producing an entry level SLS to rival the Porsche 911. Somehow, Mercedes went from being soft to being hardcore offering the black series which takes already potent AMG cars to the next level. Not to mention, unlike BMW and Audi, Mercedes has successfully rolled out all their performance models in the United States. Times are changing folks, and at least to this poster, it sure looks like Mercedes is now the enthusiast brand of choice.

      This article was originally published in forum thread: Has BMW slipped? Is Mercedes now the German performance enthusiast brand of choice? started by Sticky View original post
      Comments 140 Comments
      1. JonsC63AMG's Avatar
        JonsC63AMG -
        This is a never ending topic- BMW vs MB.. Personally I love my AMGs. I also have a 02 Clk55 which is dead reliable. I never had a car like the C63 which I beat on and never had a issue or problem. Currently have 21K miles. Ive owned a 350z which had many minor problems.
      1. Sticky's Avatar
        Sticky -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Stahlgrau Click here to enlarge
        Seems like a decent car to me. Performance and price on par with an E46 M3.
        Not a car approached by the M division in the same way. The end result does not mean how you went about it is the same.
      1. Sticky's Avatar
        Sticky -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Stahlgrau Click here to enlarge
        It'll be a lot cheaper to get 400whp/400rwtq, too.
        And if you want more? What if you want 700 whp? Best to stick with the E46.
      1. Stahlgrau's Avatar
        Stahlgrau -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sticky Click here to enlarge
        Not a car approached by the M division in the same way. The end result does not mean how you went about it is the same.
        Opinions may vary. I think it's a good entry-level M.
      1. Sticky's Avatar
        Sticky -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Stahlgrau Click here to enlarge
        Opinions may vary. I think it's a good entry-level M.
        We respect differing opinions.

        No matter how wrong they are Click here to enlarge
      1. Stahlgrau's Avatar
        Stahlgrau -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sticky Click here to enlarge
        And if you want more? What if you want 700 whp? Best to stick with the E46.

        Yeah, there are other options. Different strokes. Different folks.

        700whp wasn't available for the E46 M3 until well after the model was discontinued.
      1. Sticky's Avatar
        Sticky -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Stahlgrau Click here to enlarge
        Yeah, there are other options. Different strokes. Different folks.

        700whp wasn't available for the E46 M3 until well after the model was discontinued.
        But it was possible? And what kind of HP did the S54 reach when it was available? The N54 has been available for how long? How long until the N54 reaches S54 levels?

        Personally, the S54 is a superior motor and it will never be surpassed by something like the N54 so enjoy the epitome of BMW 6 cylinder development.
      1. Stahlgrau's Avatar
        Stahlgrau -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sticky Click here to enlarge
        But it was possible? And what kind of HP did the S54 reach when it was available? The N54 has been available for how long? How long until the N54 reaches S54 levels?

        Personally, the S54 is a superior motor and it will never be surpassed by something like the N54 so enjoy the epitome of BMW 6 cylinder development.
        Yes, it was possible with a built motor. Who's to say what will come of the N54 with a built motor and bigger turbos? Time will tell.

        Thanks, though. I'll enjoy what I have. Of course, I paid almost as much as the 1M to get to 700ish whp.
      1. Sorena's Avatar
        Sorena -
        ^ man i still enjoy watching your car's pictures ,that's the sickest E46 out there, i'm jealous Click here to enlarge
      1. Stahlgrau's Avatar
        Stahlgrau -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sorena Click here to enlarge
        ^ man i still enjoy watching your car's pictures ,that's the sickest E46 out there, i'm jealous Click here to enlarge
        Haha...I'll trade ya. Thanks man.

        I just wish it didn't sit in storage for 11 months out of the year. Click here to enlarge

        One more month...
      1. Sorena's Avatar
        Sorena -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Stahlgrau Click here to enlarge
        Haha...I'll trade ya. Thanks man.

        I just wish it didn't sit in storage for 11 months out of the year. Click here to enlarge

        One more month...
        Trade with 911 ? any man man , any day Click here to enlarge
        may I ask why it's in storage ?
      1. Stahlgrau's Avatar
        Stahlgrau -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sorena Click here to enlarge
        Trade with 911 ? any man man , any day Click here to enlarge
        may I ask why it's in storage ?
        You're crazy if you'd trade that 911TT for the M3. Still, I don't know if I could ever part with it.

        It's in storage because I'm working overseas.
      1. JRCART's Avatar
        JRCART -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sorena Click here to enlarge
        dude that's why M is so especial , no lame cars with M badge for losers who just want to drive something with M logo on it.
        on the other hand AMG really lost it with making AMG versions of some lame cars , like R63 Click here to enlarge
        LOL, the X6 M is as big of a joke as the R63...nice try though
      1. Sorena's Avatar
        Sorena -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by JRCART Click here to enlarge
        LOL, the X6 M is as big of a joke as the R63...nice try though
        man X6 M is a cool joke,i personally like it , but lately seems M division lost it's humor .
        their future joke cars are retarded , like M3 GranTurismo , what a shame !!
      1. BK63AMG's Avatar
        BK63AMG -
        There is a reason why there is an AMG parked in my driveway and NOT an M car.
      1. Sticky's Avatar
        Sticky -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by BK63AMG Click here to enlarge
        There is a reason why there is an AMG parked in my driveway and NOT an M car.
        Well, share what it is.
      1. BK63AMG's Avatar
        BK63AMG -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sticky Click here to enlarge
        Well, share what it is.
        I know that from a track perspective, the M is generally the better "driver's" car...but I don't track my car. Personally, I'm into big displacement V8 with not just top-end HP, but TQ to boot. I was considering the E92 M3 coupe and the IS-F before I purchased my C63 but I couldn't reconcile the small displacement, low TQ of the M...I know it's a beautiful engine, but when I mash the throttle, I like to be thrown back into my seat. AMGs have the quality in spades. From a handling perspective, I didn't feel like I was giving up enough (I felt the power disparity btwn AMG and M was great than the handling disparity between M and AMG...make sense?)

        Aesthetically, i feel that aMG vehicles tend to look the part more than M cars. I think there is incredible aftermarket and tuner support which helps remedy this but stock for stock, AMG cars look the part...the M aesthetic seem to have evolved in a less aggressive way. I think high performance machines should not only perform the part; they should look, sound and feel the part straight from the factory.

        With that said, the M cars are nothing to sneeze at, but I can't say that I'm too impressed with the direction that the division is heading in re: smaller displacement and watered down styling...but that's just my opinion.
      1. Sticky's Avatar
        Sticky -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by BK63AMG Click here to enlarge
        I know that from a track perspective, the M is generally the better "driver's" car...but I don't track my car. Personally, I'm into big displacement V8 with not just top-end HP, but TQ to boot.
        Then you definitely picked the right car. I'm starting to become a fan of the low end as well.

        The M is all top end, and man, does it scream on the top end.
      1. BK63AMG's Avatar
        BK63AMG -
        But I will say that I really like the X5 and X6 M(s)...there is something about the concept of a twin-turbo AWD "truck" that I love!
      1. Sticky's Avatar
        Sticky -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by BK63AMG Click here to enlarge
        But I will say that I really like the X5 and X6 M(s)...there is something about the concept of a twin-turbo AWD "truck" that I love!
        Probably because those truck are low torque monsters and more like a Mercedes than a traditional BMW.