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Thread: Renntech may not be using any proprietary pump for their new Intercooler.

              
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    Renntech may not be using any proprietary pump for their new Intercooler.

    I always love when vendors in the Mercedes Benz community try to rape their customers, $1,395.00 for this?

    Discuss

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    I have been hearing a lot of behind the scenes stuff about this. Seems people are intent on getting this information out there.

    Now, I don't know what pump Renntech uses although many sources are saying it is just a BMW pump they are marking up. If so, then yes, they are almost robbing, raping, whatever term you want to use.

    I do not know if that is the case though as Mo was posting Renntech uses their own pump or something of that sort. I have a feeling this isn't going away though.

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    how much does that BMW pump cost?

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    FYI:

    http://news.renntechmercedes.com/201...mp-comparison/

    I asked Renntech about this and they say despite the similarity in the design of the case the internals are completely different and flow significantly better than a standard BMW pump.

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Barfly Click here to enlarge
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    I asked Renntech about this and they say despite the similarity in the design of the case the internals are completely different and flow significantly better than a standard BMW pump.
    So then where does this controversy originate from?

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    I've been doing lots of research into this. I have just received some info back from Pierburg Pump Technology. According to Pierburg's info on the CWA 50 (BMW pump) The flow rate is 30L per minute. That equates to 7.9 GPM That is quite good for a little pump that cost $250 from the BMW dealer. I've held this pump in my hands and it is very small, but yet a stout pump non the less. If the proof is in the pictures. Modifying the BMW pump never happened. I say that because the pump shown in RT's pictures is NOT the BMW pump or the one found in the BMW V8TT cars. What happened here is Pierburg makes a pump that is slightly bigger and slightly more powerful in terms of flow rate over their CWA50 pump (BMW pump). This bigger more powerfull pump is called a CWA 100.2 pump. Thats what they are selling. This is no modified BMW pump, because the pump RT shows in the pictures is not the BMW pump (CWA50). Rather, its a CWA100.2 pump. With that said and to reiterate... What you see in RT's pictures in NOT a modified BMW pump. It is a completely different pump called a CWA 100.2.

    Keep in mind Pierbug is a massive company. Just about all of our Mercedes have some part from Pierburg on them. In most cases your fuel pump is made by Pierburg. To understand the scope and size of this company or the conglomerate that owns Pierburg. They make the engine blocks for some Porsche's, intakes manifolds for BMW, A vast array or pumps and cooling components for hybrid cars. Their distributor in the USA is Hella Inc. Most of us know them for their lights.

    When I contacted Hella about the CWA pumps. I was told, they are not part numbered. that means a few things. They are not sold to the general public, They are only made and sold to the auto mfg that uses them in their cars. As I await the spec sheet on the CWA 100.2 pump. I can tell you from the spec sheet on the CWA50 pump that it can run on 8V, 12.5V, and 16.5V. It runs on a brushless electric motor. The CWA50 (BMW pump) began production in 2008. It is currently used in V8 BMW charged air cooling, V6 Audi charged air cooling and Chrysler Hybrid cars.

    I think a valid question is... Why the heck would a massive company like Pierburg re-invent one of their products? when they already have a pump on the market that out preforms their CWA50 pump?

    As soon as I get the specs from Pierburg on the CWA 100.2 I will share them with Sticky. Sticky I can email you the spec sheets I got from Pierburg on the CWA50 (BMW) pump if you like.

    Lastly, what you see in RT's testing data seems to only be comparing 2 totally different pumps made by the same company. It seems as if there was no modifications to constitute proprietary claims. The comparison data looks like the Pierburg CWA50 vs the Pierburg CWA100.2 nothing more.

    First and for most, i'm a Mercedes owner, I love to mod my cars. However, makes my blood boil when people get sold OEM parts as performance mods. I mean we can all walk into the dealer and for around $1500 walk out with an 82mm throttle body and housing that needs a slight mod. It would piss me off to know I shelled out huge cash for a set of re-painted Audi brakes. Speaking of Audi's. If I owned one, it would also piss me off if I spent $900 on an intercooler pump that is sold at just about every boat supply store around for $200!

    I tell you what... It was innovative products that made the aftermarket performance industry awesome. However it seems innovation and the "D" in R&D is gone.

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by hooleyboy Click here to enlarge
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    As soon as I get the specs from Pierburg on the CWA 100.2 I will share them with Sticky. Sticky I can email you the spec sheets I got from Pierburg on the CWA50 (BMW) pump if you like.
    I'll gladly look into this but I think I'm missing the controversy or back story here. Everyone keeps bringing up this Renntech pump thing and I just don't really understand it.

    You are saying this is just an OEM part that is marked up heavily, correct?

    It seems Renntech is saying they are heavily modifying a BMW pump.

    I have no idea where the truth is in this.

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    Whats going on here is RT is saying they have modified the BMW pump in a collaboration with the OEM mfg Pierburg. When the picture RT shows is not the BMW pump at all. So how can they mod it when they are not even using it? RT says they tested the BMW pump and then made changes to it. When it seems the only change made was to use a completely different pump that Pierburg makes. In the picture Full Throttle posted you see both pumps Pierburg makes. The top pic is of the BMW pump CWA50. The pump bellow it is Pierburg's pump that is more powerful. It is also the pump depicted in the RT photos. That pump is called a CWA100.2. However in all over RT flow info they released on the BMW pump and RT pump. They show the BMW pump in a C.A.D form. When really that pump is not being used at all. It seems they want you to think they have made a change to the existing BMW pump.

    The controversy here is there seems to be misleading info coming from a top Mercedes shop. Thier outrageous claims to Proprietary design and collaboration with Pierburg to design a new pump seems to be a load of bull. When all they seem to be doing is using an off the shelf part that Pierburg already makes. Based on my research their is no "BMW pump" being used at all in the RT kits according to the pictures. So when they show the flow numbers of the BMW pump and the pump RT is using. What you are really seeing is the flow numbers of 2 pumps, One being the BMW pump and the other being the next step up in a line of Pumps Pierburg makes. Much like Johnson and how they have pumps that are stronger then other ones they make. With that said, I'm waiting on the spec sheets of the pump I believe RT to be using.

    Think of it this way:
    BMW pump= Pierburg CWA 50
    RT pump= Pierburg CWA 100.2
    These are two pump in a line of pumps Pierburg makes. With CWA100.2 being stringer than the CWA50 (BMW pump) In turn it seems to enplane how one pump out preformed the other in RT's testing.

    To even say they look the same is a bit off base. You will find the the BMW pump and the CWA 100.2 have a different look to them. The BMW pump has different inlets and outlets. Its shorter, It does not have a plastic shroud around the casing of the pump. Also note: On both Peirburg pumps and the RT pump. You can un-screw the backing plate that holds the product logo and associated numbers. Then you can make your own backing plate out of metal and cover up any trace of mfg's info. With that said, they are clearly taking off the Peirburg backing plate and badging it with their own.

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by hooleyboy Click here to enlarge
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    Whats going on here is RT is saying they have modified the BMW pump in a collaboration with the OEM mfg Pierburg. When the picture RT shows is not the BMW pump at all. So how can they mod it when they are not even using it?
    I don't know, I wish I had the answer to this point as it seems like a good one.

    So what pump is Renntech actually using? The CWA100.2, right? So how much can this pump be purchased for?

    Can't people just bypass Renntech and find this pump?

    Also, where did you get this information from?

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    I just received the specs on the CWA100.2 pump. It seems as if the CWA 100.2 pump is the second generation of the 100 series pumps Pierpurg makes. So there is in fact a CWA100 as well. the 100.2 is just the newer casing. With the newer casing, the CWA 100.2 looks very much like the BMW pump. So pictured on Pierburg's website shows the CWA100 except it is labeled with the new model number, but not the new picture. With that said Here are the specs of the CWA 100 series pumps GPM= 10.56 or 40L per Minute, 6000 hour life, 11.6psi.

    If you wonder how the jump in gallons per minute was achieved from RT just look at this.
    CWA50 (BMW pump) = 7.9 GPM
    CWA100 series pump = 10.56 GMP

    There's your jump in flow rate and pressure. I think its clear RT achieved the better flow data by swapping pumps, not modifying any internal workings of the pumps. I will track down pricing and all that info soon enough.

    In all honesty, People looking for a good pump, should just contact the BMW dealer. the CWA 50 pump flows awesome and is a great pump, even if it flow 2 gpm less than its big brother.

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by hooleyboy Click here to enlarge
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    I just received the specs on the CWA100.2 pump. It seems as if the CWA 100.2 pump is the second generation of the 100 series pumps Pierpurg makes. So there is in fact a CWA100 as well. the 100.2 is just the newer casing. With the newer casing, the CWA 100.2 looks very much like the BMW pump. So pictured on Pierburg's website shows the CWA100 except it is labeled with the new model number, but not the new picture. With that said Here are the specs of the CWA 100 series pumps GPM= 10.56 or 40L per Minute, 6000 hour life, 11.6psi.

    If you wonder how the jump in gallons per minute was achieved from RT just look at this.
    CWA50 (BMW pump) = 7.9 GPM
    CWA100 series pump = 10.56 GMP

    There's your jump in flow rate and pressure. I think its clear RT achieved the better flow data by swapping pumps, not modifying any internal workings of the pumps. I will track down pricing and all that info soon enough.

    In all honesty, People looking for a good pump, should just contact the BMW dealer. the CWA 50 pump flows awesome and is a great pump, even if it flow 2 gpm less than its big brother.
    You mentioned to me that both of these pumps are used in BMW cars, with the 100.2 being in the N63 twin turbo V8 based cars, correct? So can't either be purchased at the BMW dealership?

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    I think there is a misunderstanding along the way. The 100 series are not used in the BMWs. only the CWA50 is used in the BMWs. That pump can be bought from the dealer for around $250.I will soon know what the CWA 100 series is used on.

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by hooleyboy Click here to enlarge
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    I think there is a misunderstanding along the way. The 100 series are not used in the BMWs. only the CWA50 is used in the BMWs. That pump can be bought from the dealer for around $250.I will soon know what the CWA 100 series is used on.
    My fault, I thought the 100 series was in the twin turbo V8's.

    Thanks for clearing it up.

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    $#@! i get a brand new OEM high output pump for my 1991 mustang for 27.99, lol $#@!es.

    Anyway, who knows if renntech had that big company develop some better internals with the same casing. What you need to confirm this?


    Get the CWA 100.2 pump specs and the Renntech 'upgrade' pump specs, compare... if the same then that = markup-rape if different then internals are different, end of story.
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    I don't know the full details of this story either, but here is what I got from this whole thing....

    - RENNtech has been using an IC pump for a while and charging X amount of dollars for it.
    - Hooleyboy and (possibly others) indirectly hinted that all RENNtech was selling was just a BMW pump which can be purchased from any BMW dealership for one fifth the price.
    - RENNtech replied by explaining that they do NOT use the BMW pump; they use an upgraded version of it, and despite the two pumps looking almost identical, the pump they use is different than the BMW pump, and is better performing.
    - Hooleyboy discovers that the pump RENNtech was using was indeed not the BMW pump but a different model altogether, and he will try to get more details on pricing and availability.
    Last edited by Exeenom; 08-10-2011 at 12:52 AM.
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    The CWA100.2 pump is used in a Mercedes SLS AMG. It retails at the dealer for about $500. Part Number: A 000 500 04 86. Yeah I know, the SLS is an N/A motor. Mercedes must have seen a reason to used this pump though.

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by hooleyboy Click here to enlarge
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    The CWA100.2 pump is used in a Mercedes SLS AMG. It retails at the dealer for about $500. Part Number: A 000 500 04 86. Yeah I know, the SLS is an N/A motor. Mercedes must have seen a reason to used this pump though.
    Interesting...

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    Sticky, I know you have a BMW forum. If you know guys who are looking for a pump upgrade that will most likely be plug and play. Send them this info.

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by hooleyboy Click here to enlarge
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    Sticky, I know you have a BMW forum. If you know guys who are looking for a pump upgrade that will most likely be plug and play. Send them this info.
    I'll let them know.

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by hooleyboy Click here to enlarge
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    The CWA100.2 pump is used in a Mercedes SLS AMG. It retails at the dealer for about $500. Part Number: A 000 500 04 86. Yeah I know, the SLS is an N/A motor. Mercedes must have seen a reason to used this pump though.
    Very interesting info.... so is that the same exact pump that RENNtech is using?
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    You can get this SLS pump for $340 on the net. It is my belief that this is the pump RT is using. I would advise people who want to know for sure or draw their own conclusion. Read over the info in this thread, reach out to Pierburg. They have been more than helpful to me. I think there needs to be some common scene used when drawing your conclusion. With that said think of this....

    Think of the claim that was made by RT. Working directly with the mfg to make a proprietary pump... Well, why would Pierburg go back to the drawing board to re-invent their CWA50 for a tuning shop? I mean each BMW V8TT uses 2 CWA50's. Think of all the cars that engine is in. Multiply that by 2 and thats the minimum number they made. Now factor in the Audi's and other cars this pump is used in. The production numbers for the CWA50 must me extremely high. So why would they work with anyone who isn't talking about buying anything less then 10,000 units? Even if you could get them at $100 a pop, Thats $100,000 invested in pumps! Even if they were $50 a pump thats still $50K. IDK?

    Then you have to consider Pierburg already makes a pump that will flow right in the ballpark of RT's claims (CWA100.2). So why would Pierburg develop a pump that equals the flow numbers RT was looking for when they already have it? Just to add a little bit more. Think of all the SLS's that are out there... Each SLS runs 2 of the CWA100.2 pumps. Then think of all the newer Sprinters that are available. They use this pump too. I own a few businesses, There is no way I'm changing a product I make or re-inventing it, if it's selling and selling well. then to top it off, make a part that I already make.. It doesn't make scene. The cost of R&D is expensive. Thats my .02 on the matter.

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by hooleyboy Click here to enlarge
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    You can get this SLS pump for $340 on the net. It is my belief that this is the pump RT is using. I would advise people who want to know for sure or draw their own conclusion. Read over the info in this thread, reach out to Pierburg. They have been more than helpful to me. I think there needs to be some common scene used when drawing your conclusion. With that said think of this....

    Think of the claim that was made by RT. Working directly with the mfg to make a proprietary pump... Well, why would Pierburg go back to the drawing board to re-invent their CWA50 for a tuning shop? I mean each BMW V8TT uses 2 CWA50's. Think of all the cars that engine is in. Multiply that by 2 and thats the minimum number they made. Now factor in the Audi's and other cars this pump is used in. The production numbers for the CWA50 must me extremely high. So why would they work with anyone who isn't talking about buying anything less then 10,000 units? Even if you could get them at $100 a pop, Thats $100,000 invested in pumps! Even if they were $50 a pump thats still $50K. IDK?

    Then you have to consider Pierburg already makes a pump that will flow right in the ballpark of RT's claims (CWA100.2). So why would Pierburg develop a pump that equals the flow numbers RT was looking for when they already have it? Just to add a little bit more. Think of all the SLS's that are out there... Each SLS runs 2 of the CWA100.2 pumps. Then think of all the newer Sprinters that are available. They use this pump too. I own a few businesses, There is no way I'm changing a product I make or re-inventing it, if it's selling and selling well. then to top it off, make a part that I already make.. It doesn't make scene. The cost of R&D is expensive. Thats my .02 on the matter.
    Is this a theory though based on evidence or can you definitively prove what you are saying about the Renntech pump?

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    good morning, I have a question about the cwa 100.2 pump. you seem to have good knowledge about them. I need to use several for battery pack cooling for an electric vehicle andI was wondering if you could answer my question. Do you know if the inlet/outlet(black plastic piece) can be rotated. I have been experiencing position problems with the current location and it needs to be repositioned. I have tried the web site for Peirburg, I cant find any tech. on that subject. I have e mailed them, but since its the weekend thought maybe you might be able to help thanks Linbrilva

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by linbrilva Click here to enlarge
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    good morning, I have a question about the cwa 100.2 pump. you seem to have good knowledge about them. I need to use several for battery pack cooling for an electric vehicle andI was wondering if you could answer my question. Do you know if the inlet/outlet(black plastic piece) can be rotated. I have been experiencing position problems with the current location and it needs to be repositioned. I have tried the web site for Peirburg, I cant find any tech. on that subject. I have e mailed them, but since its the weekend thought maybe you might be able to help thanks Linbrilva
    Yes you can rotate the housing on the pump no problem. 4 torx screw hold the cover on and it just has a big rubber O-ring as a seal. I have 3 of these pump at the shop right now 2 of them are the smaller BMW units which are going into a car and the 3rd one is out of a SL that is being worked on currently and it just happens that it was at renntech not long ago and got the pump upgrade. BTW the harness plug that has been spliced on the SL has a BMW part number on it.

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Marcin Click here to enlarge
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    Yes you can rotate the housing on the pump no problem. 4 torx screw hold the cover on and it just has a big rubber O-ring as a seal. I have 3 of these pump at the shop right now 2 of them are the smaller BMW units which are going into a car and the 3rd one is out of a SL that is being worked on currently and it just happens that it was at renntech not long ago and got the pump upgrade. BTW the harness plug that has been spliced on the SL has a BMW part number on it.
    Thanks.

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