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  1. #1
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    N54 Manifold simulations

    Ok guys I've been working on my own time to simulate Mat Morkin's manifold design. He sent me the STEP file and I meshed it and simulated it on an N54 with mass flow inlet of about 0.78 lbm/s and 18 psi boost pressure. The results are PRELIMINARY, this design will go through multiple simulations until I feel one best represents reality i.e. is the most physically valid.

    Just wanted to show you guys what I am up to. Overall I can't tell you how this will perform better than stock, because I dont have a stock manifold so I can only use this manifold as my baseline and suggest to Mat what to change from there.

    More to come.

    Click here to enlarge
    Last edited by DBFIU; 06-22-2012 at 03:52 PM.
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    Click here to enlarge

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    repped, this is so cool. I would love to see simulations for the stock manifold...
    Click here to enlarge
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    Interesting!
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    @DBFIU, I'm sure @Mat Morkin could provide you with the measurements of the stock intake manifold. I think he's cross sectioned that beast long while ago. Mat?

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    I think if we can get the throttle body entry down towards the bottom right and have the bottom wider than the top (a la HPF's manifold) it'd even out the flow across the cylinder a lot better. Thoughts?

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    You guys are amazing at what you do. Smart ass guys.
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    So what does this mean? Doesn't seem like the velocity going into most of those cylinders looks very good.
    Click here to enlarge
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    I am taking measurements off of John's car tomorrow, I think the plenum needs to be larger, and and deeper, which will move the TB back. That plenum is not much larger than stock so that I can use my newly made prototype the take notes on what needs to change. I am not going to do the stock manifold bc after I finish John's car I am moving on to another project.

    Ya, what does that mean? Looks like cyl 1,2,3 are not getting air.

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    I think that the bulb on the bottom is causing to muck turbulence. I'm going to see what I can do to take it out and just make a massive plenum. Move the T.B. back as far as it will fit, but then runners are about where they need to be.

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    I went back and measured the stock manifold, and that model is pretty close to the stock manifold. I made the plenum size similar because I need a car the measure off of so we can change, so what you are looking at is very similar to what is going on in the stock manifold. My runners are different, but the plenum is almost the same.

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    Much respect on the work you have done so far!

    If you are simulating a flow bench test, it looks like the boundary conditions at each exhaust port are too variable wrt one another.

    It appears though that the simulation is engine in operation with changing boundary conditions at each exhaust port depending on cam position, a much more difficult analysis to perform.

    Good luck with your iterations, I look forward to the results!

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    Okay, we did not everything done today, but John and I have meet and plan a working relationship, btw we are both Eagle Scouts, so we are Eagle brothers...which means a lotClick here to enlarge. Anyway, I can move the TB to the centerline between Cyl 1 & 2. Also, I am redesigning the plenum to be larger. That should help out A LOT. Model should be done next week.

    We are meeting next weekend to look at the what we can do with Turbo's. Later.

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    Mat, I havent had a lot of time to process the latest results. Please understand that simulations take a long time to post process and I can only suggest now not to move the TB to the centerline of cyl1 and 2 just yet until I have actual data from the simulation to tell you how bad the flow simulation shows the flow distirbution. For now, my best guess would be to design a manifold such that the TB is farther away and incorporate your own chargepipe if need be. A supra style manifold with tapered log and internal port horns will be a better design than TB on cyl 3 and 4 centerline such as the stock one.


    Everyone please remember that the simulations I will be doing for mat will be on my own time and it will take literally weeks to months of iterating back and forth between designer and analyst before we converge to the best possible manifold design. Just hang in there Mat, let me get back to you on monday with definitive re-design suggestions.
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    Click here to enlarge

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by yage202 Click here to enlarge
    Much respect on the work you have done so far!

    If you are simulating a flow bench test, it looks like the boundary conditions at each exhaust port are too variable wrt one another.

    It appears though that the simulation is engine in operation with changing boundary conditions at each exhaust port depending on cam position, a much more difficult analysis to perform.

    Good luck with your iterations, I look forward to the results!
    yage that type of simulation will eventually be performed. It will be a full blown unsteady transient CFD model with valve open and closure events which will induce helmholtz waves to and from the valve seat to the plenum etc.. etc... This simulation that you see in the picture in the first post is a steady state preliminary ballpark flow distribution. As you can see, the bulge in cyl 1 is causing huge amounts of flow restriction.
    Some people live long, meaningful lives.

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    This is really great stuff guys. Can't tell you how much I appreciate seeing the community working together in projects as interesting as this one is. Once all said and done I'm sure we'll have an amazing solution compared to stock.

    As with anything, good things take time. I for one never mind waiting for quality.

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by DBFIU Click here to enlarge
    yage that type of simulation will eventually be performed. It will be a full blown unsteady transient CFD model with valve open and closure events which will induce helmholtz waves to and from the valve seat to the plenum etc.. etc... This simulation that you see in the picture in the first post is a steady state preliminary ballpark flow distribution. As you can see, the bulge in cyl 1 is causing huge amounts of flow restriction.

    Man, I appriciate what you are doing! Thank you!

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    I believe the only way to get even distribution to all the cylinders is to have something like this:

    Click here to enlargeClick here to enlargeClick here to enlarge

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    This was actually a very similar project to what you guys are doing. One guy was simulating several options, forum members were commenting and finally the intake was actually cnc'd. Here is one pic:

    Click here to enlarge

    Props to you guys if you get this done!

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    And here is one of the simulations that goes with this intake.



    Edit, something wrong with the video as it jumps to the end almost immediately...here is a proper one from another angle:


  20. #20
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    Nice videos Click here to enlarge

    my question, what is the little circle next to the intake runner? Is that where the injector would mount? Or some sort of optional air intake path?

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by 654 Click here to enlarge
    I believe the only way to get even distribution to all the cylinders is to have something like this:

    Click here to enlargeClick here to enlargeClick here to enlarge
    That's a pretty cool model, but the TB won't fit.

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Mat Morkin Click here to enlarge
    That's a pretty cool model, but the TB won't fit.
    Make it fit Mat!
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    Click here to enlarge

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    This is great to see! I've been waiting for someone to tackle the manifold on the N54. Thanks!

  24. #24
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    Firing order of the N54 is

    1-5-3-6-2-4

    Someone please confirm that this is correct, I would like to set up the transient simulation and need the correct firing order.
    Some people live long, meaningful lives.

    Other people eat shit and die.

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    Click here to enlarge

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by DBFIU Click here to enlarge
    Ok guys I've been working on my own time to simulate Mat Morkin's manifold design. He sent me the STEP file and I meshed it and simulated it on an N54 with mass flow inlet of about 0.78 lbm/s and 18 psi boost pressure. The results are PRELIMINARY, this design will go through multiple simulations until I feel one best represents reality i.e. is the most physically valid.

    Just wanted to show you guys what I am up to. Overall I can't tell you how this will perform better than stock, because I dont have a stock manifold so I can only use this manifold as my baseline and suggest to Mat what to change from there.

    More to come.

    http://www.PorscheBoost.com/images/i...orkin_R1-1.jpg
    The firing order is correct.

    Based on your simulation results the flow of the stock intake manifold is really poor as a starting point. I believe we could see huge gains if the intake manifold would be redesigned. I think even +50whp could be possible with turbo upgrades.

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