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  1. #1
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    Renntech W204 C63 Black Series M156 dynojet tune and baseline results - + ~15-19 wheel horsepower

    The C63 AMG Black Series is in a much higher state of tune than standard C63 AMG which should be obvious to most people. Renntech in SAE correction got a baseline of 434.4 and 436.7. The tuned numbers are 453.9, 452.8, and 451.2 on the three post tune dyno runs. This makes for gains just under and around 20 wheel horsepower on 93 octane pump gas. Logged temperature details are also included showing it was quite hot during these runs in the 90 degree range.

    In STD correction the peak rear wheel horsepower number goes to 463 tune only on 93 pump. Very nice and it also shows just how strong the C63 Black Series is in stock form with its 447 wheel horsepower baseline. The peak tuned numbers in STD correction correlate to what we saw posted from Velos Designwerks. Thankfully Renntech included both SAE and STD.

    Very nice work as always squeezing power out of what is an already aggressively tuned motor.

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    Nice. Makes me think that 7:46 ring time a little on the slow side...

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Even Money Click here to enlarge
    Nice. Makes me think that 7:46 ring time a little on the slow side...
    Perhaps, but the car isn't light.
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sticky Click here to enlarge
    Perhaps, but the car isn't light.
    True dat. But, the ZL1, an outright pig, ran about 7:41, and unless it's underrated, apparently not as much an edge in hp as thought.

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    Those are REALLY high baseline figures, amongst the highest I have seen. Here is the basis of my comment. A stock CLK 63 Black Series makes just 5 less claimed crank HP than the C63 BS. Stock BS baseline numbers were coming in in the 412-420 range, mine made 417 and 418 on two seperate dynos in bone stock trim. Where does the extra 17-18 hp come from? 5 crank HP does not equate to 17 whp, in fact the numbers would go the opposite direction. Looks like Renntech uses a VERY generous dyno LOL. FWIW, my stock C63 made only 422 with cahrcoals removed. Where is the other 12 plus ponies coming from? Do Renntechs number reflect true "stock" or charcoals removed? Sorry, I am not buying those numbers.
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by JRCART Click here to enlarge
    Where does the extra 17-18 hp come from? 5 crank HP does not equate to 17 whp, in fact the numbers would go the opposite direction.
    What do crank ratings really matter?

    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by JRCART Click here to enlarge
    Looks like Renntech uses a VERY generous dyno LOL. FWIW, my stock C63 made only 422 with cahrcoals removed. Where is the other 12 plus ponies coming from? Do Renntechs number reflect true "stock" or charcoals removed? Sorry, I am not buying those numbers.
    Look at the numbers Velos got. The tuned numbers line up just fine and the baselines differ slightly.
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sticky Click here to enlarge
    What do crank ratings really matter?



    Look at the numbers Velos got. The tuned numbers line up just fine and the baselines differ slightly.
    Crank number do not matter, I was using it for a comparison using MB's own stock crank ratings between the CLK BS and the C BS, they only differ by 5 HP according to MB's own figures. You are completely missing what I am saying here....these numbers make absolutely no sense whatsoever. My point is no way no how is there a bone stock C 63 BS making 434 whp!!!
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by JRCART Click here to enlarge
    Crank number do not matter, I was using it for a comparison using MB's own stock crank ratings between the CLK BS and the C BS, they only differ by 5 HP according to MB's own figures. You are completely missing what I am saying here....these numbers make absolutely no sense whatsoever. My point is no way no how is there a bone stock C 63 BS making 434 whp!!!
    Jim, did you look at the other C63 Black Series numbers we have to go on to put this in context as I suggested?
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    Let me go one stepo further and say that i am not doubting they made the 15 hp gain they are claiming, what i am call bull$#@! on is the peak number of 463 whp. It's flat out BS. Therer are guys with headers and intake mods only making 470whp, so you're telling me that you buy that a tune only car is making 463???? Wake up Sticky, aint happening, rember I own one of these car and have already had it on the dyno and know what mods net what gains.
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sticky Click here to enlarge
    Jim, did you look at the other C63 Black Series numbers we have to go on to put this in context as I suggested?
    Sticky, I don't need to look at anything, a stock C 63 BS makes a claimed 510 at the crank, if Renntech is claiming they have a baseline car putting down 434whp that equates to only a 14.1% driveline loss......we all know these cars have a 18-19% driveline loss which plays in line with the 420 whp my car and othe C BS's have put down baseline. Get off the dope man!
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by JRCART Click here to enlarge
    Let me go one stepo further and say that i am not doubting they made the 15 hp gain they are claiming, what i am call bull$#@! on is the peak number of 463 whp. It's flat out BS. Therer are guys with headers and intake mods only making 470whp, so you're telling me that you buy that a tune only car is making 463???? Wake up Sticky, aint happening, rember I own one of these car and have already had it on the dyno and know what mods net what gains.
    I understand you own an M156 but it has a less aggressive tune from the factory and the C63 BS has stronger stock internals, something to keep in mind.

    I'm not doubting you but think about this. Why would Renntech show a higher baseline than they should? A lower baseline would make their tune appear stronger. All a higher baseline does is make their gains look smaller so it wouldn't even be in their own best interest to lie about it.

    Secondly, the tuned numbers for the C63 Black Series correlate on a dynojet in the same correction between two tuners. So two different tuners are hitting about the same peak tune only numbers. So the gains make sense as you said right?

    So why would Renntech exaggerate a baseline? For what purpose?
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    I need to find this dyno and run my CLK BS on it, It would easily exceed 900whp on this magical $#@!ing dyno.
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by JRCART Click here to enlarge
    Sticky, I don't need to look at anything, a stock C 63 BS makes a claimed 510 at the crank, if Renntech is claiming they have a baseline car putting down 434whp that equates to only a 14.1% driveline loss......we all know these cars have a 18-19% driveline loss which plays in line with the 420 whp my car and othe C BS's have put down baseline. Get off the dope man!
    Trust me I'm not on anything and I pay close attention to this platform as I have to.

    I simply wanted to show you what other tuners were doing with the C63 Black Series as well. Plus you have one Jim, why don't you dyno yours to see if or by how much it may vary from what you saw with your CLK 63 BS?

    It may be best simply to have Renntech chime in themselves, @m54b25
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sticky Click here to enlarge
    I understand you own an M156 but it has a less aggressive tune from the factory and the C63 BS has stronger stock internals, something to keep in mind.

    I'm not doubting you but think about this. Why would Renntech show a higher baseline than they should? A lower baseline would make their tune appear stronger. All a higher baseline does is make their gains look smaller so it wouldn't even be in their own best interest to lie about it.

    Secondly, the tuned numbers for the C63 Black Series correlate on a dynojet in the same correction between two tuners. So two different tuners are hitting about the same peak tune only numbers. So the gains make sense as you said right?

    So why would Renntech exaggerate a baseline? For what purpose?
    Could you please explain the 14% driveline loss? IMPOSSIBLE!!!!!

    I am not doubting the 15 hp gain, I have no problem with that claim, what I have issue with is the insanely high peak numbers in both stock and tuned form.
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by JRCART Click here to enlarge
    Sticky, I don't need to look at anything, a stock C 63 BS makes a claimed 510 at the crank, if Renntech is claiming they have a baseline car putting down 434whp that equates to only a 14.1% driveline loss......we all know these cars have a 18-19% driveline loss which plays in line with the 420 whp my car and othe C BS's have put down baseline. Get off the dope man!
    Trust me I'm not on anything and I pay close attention to this platform as I have to.

    I simply wanted to show you what other tuners were doing with the C63 Black Series as well. Plus you have one Jim, why don't you dyno yours to see if or by how much it may vary from what you saw with your CLK 63 BS?

    It may be best simply to have Renntech chime in themselves, @m54b25
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by JRCART Click here to enlarge
    Could you please explain the 14% driveline loss? IMPOSSIBLE!!!!!
    You are basing the drivetrain loss off the crank figures which we agreed were meaningless.

    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by JRCART Click here to enlarge
    I am not doubting the 15 hp gain, I have no problem with that claim, what I have issue with is the insanely high peak numbers in both stock and tuned form.
    Well, maybe the tuners can chime in so we can get a better explanation @Jean@VelosDesignwerks and @m54b25
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sticky Click here to enlarge
    Trust me I'm not on anything and I pay close attention to this platform as I have to.

    I simply wanted to show you what other tuners were doing with the C63 Black Series as well. Plus you have one Jim, why don't you dyno yours to see if or by how much it may vary from what you saw with your CLK 63 BS?

    It may be best simply to have Renntech chime in themselves, @m54b25
    Read my earlier post, I have already dynoed it and it made 421.4 and my CLK made 417 and 418 on two sererate Dynos SLP's in Naperville and Evosports in HB. See why I am making a stink? I know of two other C 63 BS's that have dynoed at between 420-422 whp....but Renntech has one making 434????? See the issue here ? The numbers are bad!
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by JRCART Click here to enlarge
    Read my earlier post, I have already dynoed it and it made 421.4 and my CLK made 417 and 418 on two sererate Dynos SLP's in Naperville and Evosports in HB. See why I am making a stink? I know of two other C 63 BS's that have dynoed at between 420-422 whp....but Renntech has one making 434????? See the issue here ? The numbers are bad!
    Sorry I didn't realize you dyno'd your car. 421.4, not far off at all what Velos Designwerks hit on their dynojet in Florida. We will all see a little bit of variance even between two dynojets. Still, your own results show slightly higher numbers for the C63 Black Series which is inline with what we are seeing.

    The numbers aren't bad, please look at this graph as well:

    Click here to enlarge

    A variance of 10 whp on a baseline is not really that odd especially for cars at these power levels. The tuned numbers are right inline as well.
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sticky Click here to enlarge
    You are basing the drivetrain loss off the crank figures which we agreed were meaningless.



    Well, maybe the tuners can chime in so we can get a better explanation @Jean@VelosDesignwerks and @m54b25
    Sticky, driveline loss is ALWAYS calculated off of crank figures!!!! Do you even know the meaning of driveline loss? Jesus, you are making this way more difficult than it has to be. you're being dense today, if you're not high I'm not sure what your excuse is.
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sticky Click here to enlarge
    Sorry I didn't realize you dyno'd your car. 421.4, not far off at all what Velos Designwerks hit on their dynojet in Florida. We will all see a little bit of variance even between two dynojets. Still, your own results show slightly higher numbers for the C63 Black Series which is inline with what we are seeing.

    The numbers aren't bad, please look at this graph as well:

    http://www.benzboost.com/images/impo...f26586_h-1.jpg

    A variance of 10 whp on a baseline is not really that odd especially for cars at these power levels. The tuned numbers are right inline as well.
    a 10 hp variance is not a lot??? It's a $#@! ton when you are talking about a tune that only netted 15 HP to begin with, my public school math skills puts that at 66%, so you're saying 66% is not a lot?
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by JRCART Click here to enlarge
    Sticky, driveline loss is ALWAYS calculated off of crank figures!!!! Do you even know the meaning of driveline loss? Jesus, you are making this way more difficult than it has to be. you're being dense today, if you're not high I'm not sure what your excuse is.
    Haha, Jim, no, you don't calculate drivetrain loss based off crank figures. So if a car is underrated from the factory that means it has less drivetrain loss? Of course not.

    Mechanical losses are not a function of horsepower ratings. The GT500 horsepower figures had to be adjusted, does that mean the losses changed? Nope, they remained static.
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    Again all I am arguing is the peak number, it's false, inacurate and mis-leading. A true tune only BS is NEVER going to make an honest 465 at the wheels....I will bet you are the guys at Renntech any amount of money on that fact. If there were other mods yes, tune only NEVER!
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by JRCART Click here to enlarge
    a 10 hp variance is not a lot??? It's a $#@! ton when you are talking about a tune that only netted 15 HP to begin with, my public school math skills puts that at 66%, so you're saying 66% is not a lot?
    Well my private school math would say the difference between the baselines in STD correction is 5%.
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by JRCART Click here to enlarge
    Again all I am arguing is the peak number, it's false, inacurate and mis-leading. A true tune only BS is NEVER going to make an honest 465 at the wheels....I will bet you are the guys at Renntech any amount of money on that fact. If there were other mods yes, tune only NEVER!
    Look, I think we should keep somewhat of an open mind and not just speak in absolutes here.

    As I said, the tuners themselves will chime in. They know these motors and the limits better than us. So arguing won't get us anywhere let's get to the bottom of this.
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sticky Click here to enlarge
    Haha, Jim, no, you don't calculate drivetrain loss based off crank figures. So if a car is underrated from the factory that means it has less drivetrain loss? Of course not.

    Mechanical losses are not a function of horsepower ratings. The GT500 horsepower figures had to be adjusted, does that mean the losses changed? Nope, they remained static.
    OMG I $#@!ing give up.....better stay away from the dispenceries my friend, I think they are starting to affect you.
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