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  1. #1
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    Advice on a street oriented 335 suspension setup

    I'm pretty much done with my performance mods for this car, but right now I'm on stock suspension with eibach sport springs and the car doesn't handle like I want it to. I'm hoping by creating this thread, that some of you can give me some advice on what to do to make my 335 handle better and closer to how the m3 handles.

    I already have a quaiffe LSD so I'm thinking if I get a nice set of coilovers, it will really tighten the car up. But what coilovers should i get? I dont want them to squeek or make noise, ive heard of these issues with kw's. What about sway bars or a xbrace? How about some of the m3 suspension components outlined in Alpina_b3_lux 's thread?

    I don't want to go overkill, this isn't a track car, but I do want to make it handle better.

    Any recommendations?

    Here is the thread I was referring to http://www.bimmerboost.com/showthrea...-Alpina_B3_Luxhttp://www.bimmerboost.com/showthrea...-Alpina_B3_Lux
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    A nice set of coilovers seems to be what you are looking for. We have several vendors that sell them, so no worries.

    The M3 components are a good idea as well.

    Also, if you are going for feel, what about the diff lockdown to tighten the rear up?

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    Great thread. I have the same questions. I only had H&R sport on my 335i but I'm def thinking coil overs on the 135i I'm about to build. But again, what about koni yellows? Are coil overs a drastic improvement over koni yellows and H&R sport springs? If so which coils?
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    If you live up north where you will encounter road salts and snow, then stay away from ST suspensions. Its galvanized steel and will cause more problems than something like KWs (which is basically the same suspension with better materials).
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    KW (most popular), TEIN & HKS all sell coilover kits for the BMW E92 335i. Most of them list either how much drop to expect OR that they're adjustable dampening. Whoever you have install them, I'd just make sure that it's clear that you're looking for a more sport street setup & not a rock hard track suspension.

    I think LM had a KW sleeve over kit, so you can ask him how that affected the ride quality of his M
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    The most popular ones ive researched (actually done a fair amount of reading because i want some coils) are: KW, ST, H&R, and the PSS9/PSS10s. If i had a choice, id get KW V2s.


    FYI,
    KW V1 = drop adjustment
    KW V2 = drop & damping adjustment


    Ive also been looking at BC Racing coilovers, since they are somewhat local to me. They have camber plates, drop adjustment, and damping adjustment. Although ive only heard of less than a handful of 335is running them. They also retail less than all the other said options (right around $1000, possibly less if you have a connect). These are proven and trusted on STI/Evos/etc. KW is more of a premium brand, although the BC's have great build quality as well...
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    Id def be interested in a set of good coils for $1000 once I start this 135i.

    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Eric335 Click here to enlarge
    The most popular ones ive researched (actually done a fair amount of reading because i want some coils) are: KW, ST, H&R, and the PSS9/PSS10s. If i had a choice, id get KW V2s.


    FYI,
    KW V1 = drop adjustment
    KW V2 = drop & damping adjustment


    Ive also been looking at BC Racing coilovers, since they are somewhat local to me. They have camber plates, drop adjustment, and damping adjustment. Although ive only heard of less than a handful of 335is running them. They also retail less than all the other said options (right around $1000, possibly less if you have a connect). These are proven and trusted on STI/Evos/etc. KW is more of a premium brand, although the BC's have great build quality as well...
    2011 335is DCT, JB4 + MHD BEF, stage 2 LPFP, e50 + 50/50 meth, FBO, MT ET Streets when needed


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    I'm hoping someone will comment about a setup they already run. I wont be driving the car during the winter since this is not my DD....
    Last edited by bobS; 01-05-2013 at 10:49 PM.
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    Due to our MacPherson front end, going for a stiffer (to a certain extent) front bar will give you crisper turn in. Bang for the buck this is one of the cheapest and easiest ways to improve the feel on the street.

    Personally I ran the Hotchkis front bar and the difference was night and day.This was with AST 4100's w/stiffer springs & dampening settings and fairly aggressive ride height, so the bar might be a bit too stiff depending on the setup you decide to go with. Good alternative would be the E93 bar.

    I do suggest checking out AST, I have nothing but good to say about them. Great build quality, rebuildable, revalvable, and ability to spec spring rates, all for the same price as the other options out there is what sold me on them. The 4100's have been replaced by the 4150's; These are comparable to KW V2's, rebound and height adjustable.

    Since you already have eibach springs, going with the Konis would also be a cost effective way to adjust the dampening, though IIRC since the eibach spring rates are about the same as stock, the damper stiffness setting shouldn't be set too much stiffer than stock.

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    I'm running the HP Autowerks Koni Coilover kit, which i think is hard to beat for the money. Its essentially Koni Yellow struts/shocks with a slip on threaded sleeve and swift springs. This set-up rides great and the handling is much better than stock. You also cant beat the availbility of spring rates they offer, completely customizable.

    http://hpashop.com/HPA-E82-E9X-Koni-...it-e82-e9x.htm
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    IDK, $1854 + all the extras cost money too. Not sure that is worth it.

    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by lulz_m3 Click here to enlarge
    I'm running the HP Autowerks Koni Coilover kit, which i think is hard to beat for the money. Its essentially Koni Yellow struts/shocks with a slip on threaded sleeve and swift springs. This set-up rides great and the handling is much better than stock. You also cant beat the availbility of spring rates they offer, completely customizable.

    http://hpashop.com/HPA-E82-E9X-Koni-...it-e82-e9x.htm
    2011 335is DCT, JB4 + MHD BEF, stage 2 LPFP, e50 + 50/50 meth, FBO, MT ET Streets when needed


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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by bigdnno98 Click here to enlarge
    IDK, $1854 + all the extras cost money too. Not sure that is worth it.
    Given the quality of the parts, its a steal. There's a reason most KW users convert to swift springs.
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by lulz_m3 Click here to enlarge
    Given the quality of the parts, its a steal. There's a reason most KW users convert to swift springs.
    How does this compare to something like KW V2?

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by E90Company Click here to enlarge
    How does this compare to something like KW V2?
    It would be similar to V2; height and rebound adjustable, but the swift springs come in customizable spring rates and are MUCH BETTER than the KW springs. Biggest complaint i have heard about KW's is the springs are quite soft, and not really appropriate if you plan on hitting the road course at any point. Having said that, i have never actually owned them so i cannot do a direct comparison.
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    10 out of 10 members liked this post. Yes Reputation No
    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by bobS Click here to enlarge
    I'm pretty much done with my performance mods for this car, but right now I'm on stock suspension with eibach sport springs and the car doesn't handle like I want it to. I'm hoping by creating this thread, that some of you can give me some advice on what to do to make my 335 handle better and closer to how the m3 handles.

    I already have a quaiffe LSD so I'm thinking if I get a nice set of coilovers, it will really tighten the car up. But what coilovers should i get? I dont want them to squeek or make noise, ive heard of these issues with kw's. What about sway bars or a xbrace? How about some of the m3 suspension components outlined in Alpina_b3_lux 's thread?

    I don't want to go overkill, this isn't a track car, but I do want to make it handle better.

    Any recommendations?

    Here is the thread I was referring to http://www.bimmerboost.com/showthrea...-Alpina_B3_Luxhttp://www.bimmerboost.com/showthrea...-Alpina_B3_Lux
    Did a TON of research on this, as I wanted a truly perfect street setup for back road attacks, yet something more controlled (comfortable) than stock, and didn't really care about going low (though they're still lower than stock ZSP by quite a bit). Basically pure function. Consulted with Orb at great length about it, who was EXTREMELY helpful and without his help I would've possibly ended up in the wrong direction(he is a suspension engineer and also happens to have a 335 with which he has done nearly every conceivable suspension/bushing setup there is, including a true rear coilover conversion). Here's what we came up with:

    KW Street Comforts (higher spring rates than the non-M V1/2/3 kits, same rates as the KW Vx M3 kits, which is perfect for retaining ideal motion ratios when using a limited slip and M3 sways)
    E90/92 M3 Swaybars F&R
    E9x M3 front control arm kit (upper and lower arms)
    Ground Control street camber plates (eliminates the sloppy upper mounts)
    M3 subframe bushings
    Powerflex rear shock mounts (upper) and F&R diff bushings (though I may end up switching these out for delrin+the DEFIV brace)
    Megan toe arms, trailing arms (actually the guide rods in BMW speak), and camber arms (actually the upper links in BMW speak)
    Wavetrac 3.08 (but you already have the quaife, so that's kinda moot)

    I've driven a bunch of 335s with various coilover setups...KW V1s, V2s, V3s, HPA Konis, even rarer stuff like the Eibach R2s. Most C/O setups have the ability to improve ride comfort simply because the stock ZSP suspension is pretty much riding on the bumpstops...so with those Eibachs you have, you will really have very little suspension travel at all, and I'm sure you can imagine how that would make for a ride that is both extremely uncomfortable yet uncontrolled. However, having everything tuned to each other as a system is truly of the utmost importance, as the whole is greater than the sum of the parts. However, if you are interested in having a truly excellent street suspension...one that is more controlled/comfortable than stock, yet provides feedback that pales in comparison to stock, is delightfully balanced, neutral, poised, competent, and corners flat...frankly, you'll be hard pressed to beat the above for the goals set forth. There are certain components that can be improved upon with little/no drawbacks, except one huge one...significantly larger (and arguably unnecessary) damage to your wallet. If all of the above is too much $, too over the top, I'd be happy to offer feedback on what to select in order to maximize your results.
    Last edited by DefactoM6; 01-07-2013 at 04:18 PM.
    Click here to enlarge

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    I've heard good things about Ground Control.

    They use the Koni Yellow dampers and Eibach springs. They also have a couple difference caster/camber plate options so if you don't want a full race setup, and the noise associated, you can get a hybrid or street plate that uses urethane to isolate the spherical bearing. They also tune the damper to the desired spring rate on their shock dyno.

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    @DefactoM6

    Excellent post! Im on the fence about the m3 parts. I wonder how the car would handle with a great set of coils and sway bars? All of the m3 components may be overkill but then again I've never driven in a 335 with just coilovers so I have no clue....

    What you posted sounds like the ultimate street setup....where should I source those parts? I was going to check tischer ....
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by DefactoM6 Click here to enlarge
    Did a TON of research on this, as I wanted a truly perfect street setup for back road attacks, yet something more controlled (comfortable) than stock, and didn't really care about going low (though they're still lower than stock ZSP by quite a bit). Basically pure function. Consulted with Orb at great length about it, who was EXTREMELY helpful and without his help I would've possibly ended up in the wrong direction(he is a suspension engineer and also happens to have a 335 with which he has done nearly every conceivable suspension/bushing setup there is, including a true rear coilover conversion). Here's what we came up with:

    KW Street Comforts (higher spring rates than the non-M V1/2/3 kits, same rates as the KW Vx M3 kits, which is perfect for retaining ideal motion ratios when using a limited slip and M3 sways)
    E90/92 M3 Swaybars F&R
    E9x M3 front control arm kit (upper and lower arms)
    Ground Control street camber plates (eliminates the sloppy upper mounts)
    M3 subframe bushings
    Powerflex rear shock mounts (upper) and F&R diff bushings (though I may end up switching these out for delrin+the DEFIV brace)
    Megan toe arms, trailing arms (actually the guide rods in BMW speak), and camber arms (actually the upper links in BMW speak)
    Wavetrac 3.08 (but you already have the quaife, so that's kinda moot)

    I've driven a bunch of 335s with various coilover setups...KW V1s, V2s, V3s, HPA Konis, even rarer stuff like the Eibach R2s. Most C/O setups have the ability to improve ride comfort simply because the stock ZSP suspension is pretty much riding on the bumpstops...so with those Eibachs you have, you will really have very little suspension travel at all, and I'm sure you can imagine how that would make for a ride that is both extremely uncomfortable yet uncontrolled. However, having everything tuned to each other as a system is truly of the utmost importance, as the whole is greater than the sum of the parts. However, if you are interested in having a truly excellent street suspension...one that is more controlled/comfortable than stock, yet provides feedback that pales in comparison to stock, is delightfully balanced, neutral, poised, competent, and corners flat...frankly, you'll be hard pressed to beat the above for the goals set forth. There are certain components that can be improved upon with little/no drawbacks, except one huge one...significantly larger (and arguably unnecessary) damage to your wallet. If all of the above is too much $, too over the top, I'd be happy to offer feedback on what to select in order to maximize your results.
    Damn, excellent post sir.
    Click here to enlarge

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by bobS Click here to enlarge
    @DefactoM6

    Excellent post! Im on the fence about the m3 parts. I wonder how the car would handle with a great set of coils and sway bars? All of the m3 components may be overkill but then again I've never driven in a 335 with just coilovers so I have no clue....

    What you posted sounds like the ultimate street setup....where should I source those parts? I was going to check tischer ....
    @bobS

    Thanks! If you are on the fence, feel free to bring yourself up to CT to experience the difference for yourself. It's quite dramatic. Having driven a bunch with just coilovers, vs those with all the M3 stuff...it's not even fair to compare. However, you can make that decision for yourself! Click here to enlarge

    As for where to source them, I got the front arms from Tischer, I got a deal on the rear sway and subframe bushings from a guy who never installed them (but got them from Tischer), and I got the front bar from a friend who had a spare E90 M3 bar. For the KWs, go to Modbargains, they were able to beat everyone else's price...I got em for 1410 shipped! Perks of getting stuff from a stocking dealer. I also got the powerflex stuff from them, but there's no wiggle room to be had there. The Megan stuff is found cheapest on eBay, and I got Ground Control to knock a few bucks off of their camber plates. Any other help or insight, let me know, as I WAY overinformed myself about this stuff, lol...
    Click here to enlarge

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    Lol nice, I'll take your word for it. Do I need the ground control camber plates?

    I'm thinking I'll get the m parts and coils and call it a day.....
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    I would look into the "TRW" branded M front arms. I bought them from ECS for about 200 less than the BMW brand parts. When I got them I noticed that the M logo had simply been ground off with a die grinder. Nothing that would affect the strength of the arm, just so that they can be sold as TRW parts and not BMW. TRW looks to be the OEM for these parts. So the arms are the exact same parts, just without the M logo.

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by ajm8127 Click here to enlarge
    I would look into the "TRW" branded M front arms. I bought them from ECS for about 200 less than the BMW brand parts. When I got them I noticed that the M logo had simply been ground off with a die grinder. Nothing that would affect the strength of the arm, just so that they can be sold as TRW parts and not BMW. TRW looks to be the OEM for these parts. So the arms are the exact same parts, just without the M logo.

    Wow really? That surprises me.....r you sure? I figured BMW would make these parts..
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by bobS Click here to enlarge
    Wow really? That surprises me.....r you sure? I figured BMW would make these parts..
    No way. BMW might design the parts, but I can almost guarantee they don't make the parts themselves. That's a really common way to do things in the engineering and manufacturing world.

    I'll try to get a good picture for you, but won't be able to post it until tomorrow morning.

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    Hmmm I guess, Usually manufacturers protect their parts with supply agreements, so by the time the company is able to sell the parts it's long after the normal life cycle of the equipment/engine/vehicle.
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by bobS Click here to enlarge
    Hmmm I guess, Usually manufacturers protect their parts with supply agreements, so by the time the company is able to sell the parts it's long after the normal life cycle of the equipment/engine/vehicle.
    A company like BMW will have an NDA (non-disclosure agreement) with a company like TRW. BMW engineers design the parts, and send the drawings to TRW, who then manufactures the parts and sends them to BMW assembly facilities. This gives BMW engineers control over the specifications of the parts, and allows BMW to maintain high quality by controlling the assembly in-house. It also prevents them from having to create everything and having facilities and equipment to do so (like brakes too - ATE makes the 335 calipers and Zimmerman the rotors). A company that does everything from design to manufacture of all the parts and assembly is known as vertically integrated. Very few companies are vertically integrated. It's not cost effective, especially at the scale of a company like BMW

    We make unmanned ground vehicles at work. We do all the engineering, we contract with manufactures to make the parts and then we assembly the units. That way we don't have to have facilities and costly equipment to make every part, but can still control the quality and specs really well.

    But pictures are worth 1000 words:
    Click here to enlarge
    Click here to enlarge

    Contrast this with a picture of the BMW M branded parts from Turner's website:
    Click here to enlarge

    My pictures are of the opposite side as the Turner picture, but you can see they are clearly exactly the same, save for the ground off ///M logo. Notice how both arms have the TRW initials on them.

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