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Thread: LAPD MANHUNT - Christopher Dorner

              
  1. #76
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    interesting:

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  2. #77
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    How I'd love it if they executed the wrong guy and he was still out there...But that begs the question...how did a small price of plastic survive that fire ?? Seriously ??? And if it did survive, it was still legible ??? I'm calling bull$#@! on that one. Cops must have planted it.
    Last edited by LZH; 02-13-2013 at 08:35 PM.

  3. #78
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by LostMarine Click here to enlarge
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    thats a distortion of sorts, and i will refrain from commenting. just know that urban operations are the most dangerous for anyone.. and we are far from bad, very few, if any i can think of are better if you exclude special operations.. and then you have to consider ours, so i think we would be again top of the list..
    I never used the word bad, I said it is one of their weak points in the grand sceme of our entire military picture. I have read and seen military documentary films that back up my statement. I think all you need to do is look at the most recent war in Iraq when there was fighting in cities and see the kinds of losses US and allied forces in parts of the ground war and we were fighting a relitively loosely organized opponent. Listen, I have never been in the military and I am not trying to act like I know much about it more than what I have read and watched, my only point was that if for some god forsaken reason our government turned our military on its own people in an urban ground war the governemnt/military would win but they would most definately suffer big losses in the fight.
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  4. #79
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by LostMarine Click here to enlarge
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    thats a distortion of sorts, and i will refrain from commenting. just know that urban operations are the most dangerous for anyone.. and we are far from bad, very few, if any i can think of are better if you exclude special operations.. and then you have to consider ours, so i think we would be again top of the list..
    I think that all people are only as trained as they train themselves.

    you could easily learn more, be more prepared etc. then an average "grunt". But not so much as someone that is part of an "elite" unit, that has been training for years.

    Luckily I doubt the US will attack itself(because of laziness), instead I think we will be attacked by Iran/China/Korea but thats just a guess




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    This can't be it... a trained military/cop was only able to kill a few people?! no way, this sounds like a made up story, considering they had a psycho kid kill 30 people with no military training.

  6. #81
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by JRCART Click here to enlarge
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    I never used the word bad, I said it is one of their weak points in the grand sceme of our entire military picture.
    fair enough about bad, but it is the weak point for any doctrine founded organization. hence asymetrical warfare "group" coming about
    I have read and seen military documentary films that back up my statement. I think all you need to do is look at the most recent war in Iraq when there was fighting in cities and see the kinds of losses US and allied forces in parts of the ground war and we were fighting a relitively loosely organized opponent.i dont disagree, we had a very very sharp learning curve, we had to go from vietnam era TTPs, to urban combat quickly to survive. it got very bad for us when we went from a war to an occupation. that limited our acceptable responses. from when i went in in 2003, to back in 2004/2005, to back again in 2008, leaps and bounds of bull$#@! had happened.

    From no ballistic vests and soft skin hummvees with no doors to the best of everything, but the mission changed. attack to occupy. combat forces were drawn down and logistic and support personell were on the streets. huge difference in capabilities. so you have to consider the context as to why it got so hellish for some units. of course, nasiryah, fallujah and ramadi were not safe at all.. to say the least, but other places were relativley.. it depends



    Listen, I have never been in the military and I am not trying to act like I know much about it more than what I have read and watched
    im not arguing, you are far more informed and seem interested than the rest of the people we talk with outside of our profession


    , my only point was that if for some god forsaken reason our government turned our military on its own people in an urban ground war the governemnt/military would win but they would most definately suffer big losses in the fight.
    fun fact- the ones that are actually good at fighting, are the same ones that are actually faithful to the constitution and would not harm Americans.. its the 2nd rate and junior guys that would get caught in the mix of "following orders."
    the basics of combat are not some super secret formula or action its all based on one principle.. tsun tzu had the right idea, you just need to know how to interpret it.. hell read up on our first revolutionary war.. same tactics..or hey, look at current events overseas, you will see the flaws.

    i hear ya. there are 2 scenarios:
    1. Full military action, the Civilian populace would be destroyed and rendered ineffective within hours of 100% commitment.. theres no arguing that. air power, mortars/arty, EWO, and seasoned infantry on the ground with no cultural or language barriers would not be hard for us.

    or

    2. Large portions of the military are now consciousnesses objectors and release themselves, UA/AWOL and take arms against the fight...and now populace has strong leaders to organize and combine efforts; others that share the same belief stay in so as to control the juniors and render the orders useless by ignoring deferring and deflecting/false reporting ect..and then a few actually believe what they are told..


    #1 cannot happen because of #2

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    In this country, I would think that the military taking up arms against their families and friends is a very low probability event. We did that in a civil war and the wounds still exist. The lack of a capable insurgency (barring gangs, our local homegrown terrorists), even at the local level, seems to preclude the government from fearing its populace and despite the grumbling and $#@!ing the populace does not fear its government.

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    The fallout continues.

    LA taxpayers pony up for crackerjack LAPD!:

    Trutanich: $4.2-million Dorner settlement came 'pretty cheaply'
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    By Kate Mather and Andrew Blankstein
    April 23, 2013, 4:37 p.m.
    The two women mistakenly shot at by Los Angeles police during a manhunt for fugitive ex-cop Christopher Dorner have reached a $4.2-million settlement that will save the city millions, attorneys said Tuesday.


    The Los Angeles City Council must still ratify the agreement, announced Tuesday by Los Angeles City Atty. Carmen Trutanich and Glen Jonas, who is representing the women.


    Margie Carranza, 47, and her mother, Emma Hernandez, 71, were delivering newspapers in Torrance on Feb. 7 when LAPD officers shot repeatedly at their blue Toyota Tacoma. Hernandez was shot twice in the back, and Carranza's hands were injured by either broken glass or shrapnel, Jonas said.


    The officers were protecting the home of a high-ranking LAPD official named in a threatening manifesto authorities said was written by Dorner, and they believed that the official could have been a potential target. Dorner at the time had already killed the daughter of an LAPD captain, her fiance -- a USC police officer -- and a Riverside police officer, officials said.


    Dorner was believed to be driving a gray Nissan Titan, and there was an alert preceding the shooting that said a truck matching Dorner's was in the area.


    "Hopefully this will put an end to the Dorner saga once and for all," Trutanich said of the settlement.


    Dorner later died of an apparent self-inflicted gunshot wound after a fiery standoff with police at a Big Bear-area cabin.


    Jonas said his starting point for the negotiations was $15 million or $16 million, but said the agreement insured that the women received a timely payment and avoided potential risks of going to trial.


    "I have a 71-year-old client. You think she wants to risk the appellate court reversing it for one reason or another?" Jonas said. "$4.2 million means a lot more to her today than potentially $7 million 10 years down the road."


    Trutanich called the agreement a "no brainer because the costs were going to skyrocket."


    "We got out of this thing pretty cheaply all things considered," he said.


    Negotiations at times grew heated, the attorneys said -- Trutanich described one conversation as a "shouting match" -- but turned over the weekend.


    "We had an opportunity, I felt, before this thing really got out of hand to try and resolve it one last time," Trutanich said.


    LAPD Chief Charlie Beck was seen entering City Hall East, where the city attorney's office is located, before the news conference but was not on hand for the announcement. There was no immediate comment from the department.
    Last month, the women received a $40,000 check from the city to replace their Toyota Tacoma. Jonas said they had purchased a Dodge Ram pickup -- "all leather, four-door, real nice," he said.


    Jonas said Hernandez was "recovering well" from her injuries but both women were dealing with the "emotional impact of what had happened that day." He said they had "mixed emotions" about the settlement.


    "This doesn't erase anything that happened on that day," he said. "It doesn't change the trauma that they've been through.... They're pleased with the fact that the case is settled, but that doesn't mean they'll run around with big smiles on their faces."

  9. #84
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    still not sure how a blue/gray get mixed up

  10. #85
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by LostMarine Click here to enlarge
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    still not sure how a blue/gray get mixed up
    They wanted to shoot first and ask questions later. Whatever it cost the city and taxpayers it cost them. They just wanted him dead at any cost.

  11. #86
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sticky Click here to enlarge
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    They wanted to shoot first and ask questions later. Whatever it cost the city and taxpayers it cost them. They just wanted him dead at any cost.
    Looks like there is a lot of truth in your statement!

    It will be interesting to see how the movie version handles this....


    After Dorner claim, other fired LAPD cops want cases reviewed

    The 40 requests have come in the two months since Christopher Dorner sought revenge for his 2009 dismissal by targeting police officers and their families.


    By Joel Rubin, Los Angeles TimesApril 29, 2013


    In the wake of Christopher Dorner's claim that his firing from the Los Angeles Police Department was a result of corruption and bias, more than three dozen other fired LAPD cops want department officials to review their cases.

    The 40 requests, which were tallied by the union that represents rank-and-file officers, have come in the two months since Dorner sought revenge for his 2009 firing by targeting police officers and their families in a killing rampage that left four dead and others injured.

    Dorner's allegations of a department plagued by racism and special interests left Chief Charlie Beck scrambling to stem a growing chorus of others who condemned Dorner's violence but said his complaints about the department were accurate. To assuage concerns, Beck vowed to re-examine the cases of other former officers who believed they had been wrongly expelled from the force.

    Now, details of how the department plans to make good on Beck's offer are becoming clear. And, for at least some of the disgruntled ex-officers, they will be disappointing.

    In letters to those wishing to have their case reviewed, department officials explain that the city's charter, which spells out the authority granted to various public officials, prevents the police chief from opening new disciplinary proceedings for an officer fired more than three years ago.

    "Therefore the Department does not have the power to reinstate officers whose terminations occurred more than three years ago," wrote Gerald Chaleff, the LAPD's special assistant for constitutional policing. "You are being informed of this to forestall any misconceptions about the power of the department."

    The reviews remain one of the unsettled postscripts to the Dorner saga. In February, three years after he was fired for allegedly fabricating a story about his partner inappropriately kicking a handcuffed suspect, Dorner resurfaced in violent fashion, bent on seeking revenge for his ouster.

    After killing the daughter of the attorney who defended him at his disciplinary hearing and her fiance, Dorner killed two police officers and wounded three other people as he evaded capture during a massive manhunt. After more than a week on the run, Dorner was chased into a cabin in the mountains near Big Bear, where he died from what appeared to be a self-inflicted gunshot wound.

    Dorner had posted online an angry manifesto of sorts in which he claimed that he had been a victim of a racist, corrupt police organization that protects its favored officers at the expense of those trying to report abuses. Those accusations tapped into deep wells of discontent and distrust that officers and minority communities have felt toward the department. Beck sought to reassure doubters that years of reforms had changed the department and buried the "ghosts" of the past. He then offered to review past discipline cases.

    Fired officers who wish to have their terminations re-examined must first submit an affidavit or similar declaration within two months of receiving the letter from Chaleff, according to a copy obtained by The Times. The letter was sent in recent weeks to the former officers who have already come forward.

    Using "clear and convincing language," the letter instructs ex-officers to explain "the new evidence or change in circumstances that would justify a re-examination of your termination."

    LAPD Cmdr. Andrew Smith said Chaleff will conduct a review for anyone who follows the rules laid out in the letter. "We will do whatever it takes on the cases, including redoing interviews, if necessary," he wrote in an email.

    The department and the Protective League declined to release the names of former officers who have requested reviews.

    Gary Ingemunson, a longtime attorney for the League, used the case reviews as an opportunity to revive the League's perennial criticism that disciplinary hearings, called Boards of Rights, are stacked against officers.

    "The Board of Rights system could be fair, but for the last few years the Department has consistently outdone itself in the attempt to completely skew the system against the officer. The Department wants to win. End of story," Ingemunson wrote in a column in the current issue of the union's monthly magazine.

    One of the problems, Ingemunson and other union lawyers have said, is the makeup of the three-person panels that decide an officer's fate. Two of judges are senior-level LAPD officers, while the third is a civilian.

    According to the critics, that arrangement is unfair because officers are sent to boards whenever the chief wants them fired and the officers on the panel will feel pressure to do as the chief wants.

    Smith rejected that idea, saying board members are completely free to decide as they see fit. He pointed to department figures showing that over the last three years, officers sent by the chief to Boards of Rights were fired in only about 60% of the cases.

    Smith defended the department's disciplinary system in general, saying it has been in place for decades and stood up under repeated scrutiny by oversight bodies.

    Another allowance Beck made after Dorner's rampage, Smith noted, was to launch a broad review of disciplinary procedures to identify areas that officers believe are unfair and possibly make changes to address those concerns.
    joel.rubin@latimes.com



    Copyright © 2013, Los Angeles Times

  12. #87
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by yage202 Click here to enlarge
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    After Dorner claim, other fired LAPD cops want cases reviewed

    The 40 requests have come in the two months since Christopher Dorner sought revenge for his 2009 dismissal by targeting police officers and their families.
    Maybe something good will come out of this... that's basically what Dorner wanted.

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    odd how a man with a gun got the intended results to shed light on corruption

  14. #89
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by LostMarine Click here to enlarge
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    odd how a man with a gun got the intended results to shed light on corruption
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  15. #90
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by LostMarine Click here to enlarge
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    odd how a man with a gun got the intended results to shed light on corruption
    Careful....injecting the weapon doesn't matter in this case I think. If he had committed is crimes the same way with another weapon, I think LAPD would still have taken him out.

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by yage202 Click here to enlarge
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    Careful....injecting the weapon doesn't matter in this case I think. If he had committed is crimes the same way with another weapon, I think LAPD would still have taken him out.
    oh, i know, but i find it ironic he says he is for gun control, but used it to right wrongs against him by the government he says should be taking them

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