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Thread: F13 M6 versus 2012 Nissan GT-R R35

              
   
  1. #26
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by whoosh Click here to enlarge
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    Click here to enlarge I don't think he posted in the thread about sunglasses, but I thought it was funny that he pulled out the old Bluetooth and sunglasses stereotype on the BMW guys when their board has their own thread about it.

    I want to see a vid of you taking his GT-R down with your 'busa when it's done. Click here to enlarge
    Not in the ghey sunglasses thread but he posted his email to run any M6's lol.
    We wont be running against eachother,I have showed him my timeslips so he knows what I run. It would be a one-sided race...until he finishes his built motor,big-turbo build that is Click here to enlarge
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    Stock 2012 F13 BMW M6 versus stock 2012 Nissan GT-R from a roll - M6 puts bus-lengths on the GTR? BS result?

    This video makes one scratch their head a bit and is causing some rage on the GT-R forums. Not because the idea of the M6 winning a roll on sprint versus the 2012 GTR is not possible but in the way it happens in this video. The M6 literally just runs away from the GT-R from a 2nd gear roll. Now, the M6 does put down more power than the GT-R stock for stock, roughly 70 more wheel horsepower. It is heavier however with a curb weight of 4088 pounds versus the GTR's 3859 pound curb weight.

    Click here to enlarge

    Car and Driver tested the 2012 GTR and got an 11.2@126 out of it in the 1/4 mile. No F13 M6 has come remotely close to this trap speed. However, the all wheel drive launch of the GTR helps big time in a 1/4 mile sprint. Also, MotorTrend's numbers for the 2012 GTR differed considerably with an 11.2@122.7 which seems more much inline with the 2012 GTR's dyno numbers. Was the Car and driver car a ringer? Nissan has supplied ringers before and the 122 trap sure seems much more realistic. Owners have hit 124 mile per hour trap speeds themselves with stock 2012's so the truth is likely somewhere in the middle:

    Click here to enlarge

    The convertible F12 M6 has been tested in the 1/4 mile by Insideline and they hit a 118 mile per hour trap speed in the much heavier cab which weighs in at 4,398 pounds. So is the coupe which weighs roughly 300 pounds less capable of 122-123 mile per hour trap speeds? Yes, certainly with proper rubber.

    Check out Insideline's 2012 GTR dyno numbers:

    Click here to enlarge

    Now take a look at the F13 M6 dyno numbers:

    Click here to enlarge

    Based on power on paper a top end roll should favor the M6. The weight disparity between the two cars is not all that large and all wheel drive does offer greater drive train losses so a roll on will favor the rear wheel drive setup. Both cars have dual clutch transmissions. Gearing on the top end seems to favor the M6 as well.

    Can an F13 M6 beat a 2012 GTR from a roll? It's feasible, but it certainly would be close with a longer race necessary to favor the M6. It would not be the epic beatdown we see in the video below. The GTR owner states there was more than one run yet they were not put up. That leads BimmerBoost to believe the other runs certainly do not look like this one.

    This certainly is controversial and BimmerBoost's money is on a "real" race between the two cars in stock form actually being close assuming no driver error which is likely what happened to the GTR here. Either the wrong gear or wrong mode but either way this is a misleading result based on the available data for both cars:


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    why are people comparing 1/4 times a trap speeds when this race was from a roll?..if both cars are stock, I wouldnt be surpirsed if an M6 takes a GTR from a roll..now, not by as much in this video but it certainly can happen, and the M6 does make more torque at lower rpm than the GTR

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    I think people are making out the GTR to be more than it is..for sure its a fast car, but stock, its not unbeatable..now once you start modding those monsters, its a whole other ball game..

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    @fast4door usually a car that traps higher will walk away on a roll, esp a normal roll race like this.

  6. #31
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by MSIZZLE Click here to enlarge
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    the gtr can trap as much as 8mph more than the m6, NO SHOT this is real! a car cant be out trapped by 5-8mph then pull bus lenths from such a slow roll.
    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by 5soko Click here to enlarge
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    EXACTLY! not only does it trap lower, it put bus lengths on it lol...
    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by trufus Click here to enlarge
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    There is no possible way that undisclosed modifications, driver mods, or intentional dishonesty have anything to do with the absurd number of car lengths (sorry, bus lengths) that the M6 put on a newer GTR.
    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by ChuckD05 Click here to enlarge
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    http://www.dragtimes.com/Nissan-GT-R...lip-22547.html

    11.0@124 bone stock .... DA of 1117.... they gotta dyno more than 430....

    the m6 is a 119-120 car , given disparitys between cars it could be a 1-3 car difference either way but nothing like that...
    The GTR was NOT using Launch Control, which are the performance figures you're all using as supporting information. I'm sure if the GTR & M6 both used LC, the GTR would've pulled away because we all know the GTR's DCT can bang out Veyron-like acceleration numbers.
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by 5soko Click here to enlarge
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    @fast4door usually a car that traps higher will walk away on a roll, esp a normal roll race like this.
    not if the car that traps higher is AWD..if you have two cars with same hp, tq, and weight..but one is AWD and the other is not..the AWD will have a better 1/4 time and trap speed..example, 335xi vs 335i..the xi typically traps higher and has a better 1/4 time stock, but from a roll, the xi isnt always the winner..

    now in the case of this video..the M6 makes more torque at lower rpm and has a little more hp than the GTR..when you take away the advantage of AWD in a roll race, it really isnt that hard to believe the M6 can win. Yes, the M6 is a heavy car..but the GTR isnt exactly light either, and once the cars are moving..weight doesnt matter as much..

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by benzy89 Click here to enlarge
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    The GTR was NOT using Launch Control, which are the performance figures you're all using as supporting information. I'm sure if the GTR & M6 both used LC, the GTR would've pulled away because we all know the GTR's DCT can bang out Veyron-like acceleration numbers.
    what does LC have to do with a roll race..?

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by fast4door Click here to enlarge
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    what does LC have to do with a roll race..?
    Nothing, and that's my point because everyone keeps citing trap speeds and how it's impossible for the F12 M6 to be faster. The GTR's trap speeds, 1/4 mile times, 0-60s were achieved with the LC
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    This is entirely possible but w/e Click here to enlarge

    On a side note, AMS has a couple days ago taken IND's M5 and digitized the entire engine bay getting every dimension to the last millimeter and installed sensors in all "relevant" places to gather data for upgrades including air/water coolers, downpipes, turbos, etc. What do you think happens next? Click here to enlarge

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by fast4door Click here to enlarge
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    why are people comparing 1/4 times a trap speeds when this race was from a roll?
    You should probably think about this statement.

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by fast4door Click here to enlarge
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    not if the car that traps higher is AWD..if you have two cars with same hp, tq, and weight..but one is AWD and the other is not..the AWD will have a better 1/4 time and trap speed.
    ET more than trap. Trap is an indicator of horsepower and very important in determining roll on performance. Far more than ET, actually, ET is basically useless in a roll on race

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by benzy89 Click here to enlarge
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    Nothing, and that's my point because everyone keeps citing trap speeds and how it's impossible for the F12 M6 to be faster. The GTR's trap speeds, 1/4 mile times, 0-60s were achieved with the LC
    It isn't impossible it should just be a close race.

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sticky Click here to enlarge
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    You should probably think about this statement.
    maybe im missing something but an AWD car is going to have a better 1/4 time and trap speed than a similar car with similar hp that is RWD..not sure why this is so hard to understand...

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by fast4door Click here to enlarge
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    maybe im missing something but an AWD car is going to have a better 1/4 time and trap speed than a similar car with similar hp that is RWD..not sure why this is so hard to understand...
    Because only one part of the statement is correct.

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sticky Click here to enlarge
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    It isn't impossible it should just be a close race.
    I agree, but the way some people are talking its like the M6 has no chance at all against a GTR from a roll..that I dont agree with..

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sticky Click here to enlarge
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    Because only one part of the statement is correct.
    please, do tell..is my example not valid? 335i vs 335xi..same hp, same torque..but the xi has better traps and times? why..because it can reach a higher speed due to added traction from AWD..

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by fast4door Click here to enlarge
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    please, do tell..is my example not valid? 335i vs 335xi..same hp, same torque..but the xi has better traps and times? why..because it can reach a higher speed due to added traction from AWD..
    Are the 60 foots equal?

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sticky Click here to enlarge
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    Are the 60 foots equal?
    honestly I dont know, I havent dug that deep into it but I would assume they arent..my point is, comparing traps and 1/4 times for an AWD car vs a RWD car is irrelevant in a roll race..maybe im missing something here..

    of course the AWD car is going to have better times and speeds than the RWD car..maybe im not explaing myself clearly enough..

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by fast4door Click here to enlarge
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    honestly I dont know, I havent dug that deep into it but I would assume they arent..my point is, comparing traps and 1/4 times for an AWD car vs a RWD car is irrelevant in a roll race..maybe im missing something here.
    It's not irrelevant at all it's the most important piece of data aside from the dyno numbers. The reason you see certain all wheel drive cars trap higher than rear wheel drive on street tires is due to the 60 foot. With proper rubber, a rear wheel drive car usually traps higher assuming equal horsepower.

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sticky Click here to enlarge
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    It's not irrelevant at all it's the most important piece of data aside from the dyno numbers. The reason you see certain all wheel drive cars trap higher than rear wheel drive on street tires is due to the 60 foot. With proper rubber, a rear wheel drive car usually traps higher assuming equal horsepower.
    but what happens when the AWD car has proper rubber? lol..I guess were going back and forth. Like I said the 335xi traps higher than the the 335i, but from a roll..the xi isnt always the clear winner.

    I could be completly wrong, and it wouldnt be the first time..but if you take away the advantage of awd and race from a roll..I think its definetly possible for a M6 to take a GTR. I just dont see how comparing results from dig races applies to a roll race when one car is AWD and the other is not

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    A stock 335xi will NOT trap higher than a stock 335i. The ET will most definitely be better on the xi thanks to its launch, but its weight and drivetrain loss affects its speed potential at the end of the 1/4 mile.

    As for the M6 walking away from the GTR, well, anything can happen on the road. Good win for the M6.

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by fast4door Click here to enlarge
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    but what happens when the AWD car has proper rubber? lol..
    Nothing changes since it wasn't traction limited in the first place.

    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by fast4door Click here to enlarge
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    Like I said the 335xi traps higher than the the 335i, but from a roll..the xi isnt always the clear winner.
    The highest traping 335's are not xi's.

    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by fast4door Click here to enlarge
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    I could be completly wrong, and it wouldnt be the first time..but if you take away the advantage of awd and race from a roll..I think its definetly possible for a M6 to take a GTR.
    That's exactly what I wrote in the article. I also pointed out the trap speeds between the cars providing the M6 has race rubber and used launch control would be fairly close.

    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by fast4door Click here to enlarge
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    I just dont see how comparing results from dig races applies to a roll race when one car is AWD and the other is not
    Because trap speed is ultimately a measure of horsepower.

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    Thanks for clearing it up Sticky. Didn't have the time lol
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by fast4door Click here to enlarge
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    please, do tell..is my example not valid? 335i vs 335xi..same hp, same torque..but the xi has better traps and times? why..because it can reach a higher speed due to added traction from AWD..
    may have better ET, but not trap speed. the 1/4 mph is always in effect for a roll, the back 1/2 of the 1/4 is topend acceleration, and equal to a roll.. how fast the roll goes is when you consider gearing and weight. very very rarely will a slower 1/4 mph car outrun a faster 1/4 mph car on a a roll. it would need to be very very close already for that to happen

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