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Thread: Weistec Turbo Upgrade and downpipes-Official

              
  1. #26
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sticky Click here to enlarge
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    It would be better to have nothing? Other companies need to spend the money and do the engineering themselves. They deserve to recoup their cost and make money. Nobody is stopping competitors...
    Don't get me wrong. I've worked in R&D and fully understand the sunk costs they have to make up. But when there's only one provider, they often try to recoup costs very quickly. Then some up-start makes a solution that works just as well, maybe not nearly as pretty, but at 1/3 the cost and they start losing money. If you keep the cost lower such that the value to a new entrant is lower but still make money (paying sunk costs over a longer time), then you can maintain a monopoly AND make more money over a longer period. Not to mention increased volume earlier in the product lifecycle.

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by nawlinstornado Click here to enlarge
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    Don't get me wrong. I've worked in R&D and fully understand the sunk costs they have to make up. But when there's only one provider, they often try to recoup costs very quickly. Then some up-start makes a solution that works just as well, maybe not nearly as pretty, but at 1/3 the cost and they start losing money. If you keep the cost lower such that the value to a new entrant is lower but still make money (paying sunk costs over a longer time), then you can maintain a monopoly AND make more money over a longer period. Not to mention increased volume earlier in the product lifecycle.
    Everyone thinks they are an expert on what performance parts should be priced at. I mean it costs whatever the market will allow and I have a feeling these will sell quite well just like their other upgrades due to the quality engineering.

    If it's easy someone else should come out with something. Since there is nothing else, I'm thankful these are available and made to a high standard. AKA worth the money.

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    Whatsup with those stock downpipes MB/AMG put on the cars from the factory what a horrible design and why are they smashed in as to restrict exhaust flow? The weistec dp looks great you can just tell they flow much better than the stockers

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sticky Click here to enlarge
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    Everyone thinks they are an expert on what performance parts should be priced at. I mean it costs whatever the market will allow and I have a feeling these will sell quite well just like their other upgrades due to the quality engineering.

    If it's easy someone else should come out with something. Since there is nothing else, I'm thankful these are available and made to a high standard. AKA worth the money.
    Nope, not an expert on performance parts development nor pricing; nor do I claim to be. Simply quoting experience from education (MBA), working with/for R&D firms, and having owned my own business. And you're right - the market will bear what it will bear. But in the business world, high mark-up doesn't necessarily equate to high profits. And since Weistec has done it, and it can be copied (why do engineering work when someone else does it for you?), someone will come out with a competing product with similar performance for significantly less money - though it may not look as good (and Weistec's loogs gorgeous).

    Personal opinion: I'm more concerned with function than looks. While I find Weistec's product to be fabulous, I wouldn't consider it to be a good value. I'll wait for some competition in the market before committing to any down/mid-pipes.

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by nawlinstornado Click here to enlarge
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    Nope, not an expert on performance parts development nor pricing; nor do I claim to be. Simply quoting experience from education (MBA), working with/for R&D firms, and having owned my own business. And you're right - the market will bear what it will bear. But in the business world, high mark-up doesn't necessarily equate to high profits. And since Weistec has done it, and it can be copied (why do engineering work when someone else does it for you?), someone will come out with a competing product with similar performance for significantly less money - though it may not look as good (and Weistec's loogs gorgeous).

    Personal opinion: I'm more concerned with function than looks. While I find Weistec's product to be fabulous, I wouldn't consider it to be a good value. I'll wait for some competition in the market before committing to any down/mid-pipes.
    I tend to agree with you. All it takes is one person to buy the pair and then have them copied. $5k for the pair, another $1500 to knock them off and you now have someone undercutting you in the market. If you sold 2 pair at $2500 a pop you would have almost recouped your entire outlay of capital.
    But hey, they are the only ones to do it thus far so they can really charge whatever they want. I have to say though, that titanium and copper coating looks amazing.

  7. #31
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    Ooops.

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by nawlinstornado Click here to enlarge
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    Nope, not an expert on performance parts development nor pricing; nor do I claim to be. Simply quoting experience from education (MBA), working with/for R&D firms, and having owned my own business. And you're right - the market will bear what it will bear. But in the business world, high mark-up doesn't necessarily equate to high profits. And since Weistec has done it, and it can be copied (why do engineering work when someone else does it for you?), someone will come out with a competing product with similar performance for significantly less money - though it may not look as good (and Weistec's loogs gorgeous).

    Personal opinion: I'm more concerned with function than looks. While I find Weistec's product to be fabulous, I wouldn't consider it to be a good value. I'll wait for some competition in the market before committing to any down/mid-pipes.
    I understand you are educated but you don't have experience in the German luxury aftermarket.

    I have seen a lot of products come and go. They will adjust their pricing to whatever the market bears and right now this is the main game in town. Good for them as they can command this price.

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    The way I see it a Swatch can tell the time and so can a Rolex. We don't all wear swatches.
    A lot of times excuse the pun what looks like it may be copied might not. You can get the cheaper down pipe and have other issues we all might not know. If I drove a E63 twin I would think twice about saving a couple of grand unless the cheaper company had the reputation of Weistec as well as the same R&D. I would then question the different materials used as well as the need for the coating if the new kid on the block didn't do the same. Then I would also think about the factor of having this now vs maybe eight months down the line. In my books the sooner the better.
    E90 335iA Chiplogic Flash, AR Design DP, Helix Cooler, Stett Chargepipe, Vishnu Meth, aFe Dual Cones, Forge DP's, M3 Diff, RB Turbos and AE Exhaust, NX Wet Kit
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    The work needed to put these in (motor out of car job i believe) you better bet i want a perfect fitting product. To have it be a hair off (engine bay is very tight on these cars...its a feat what Weistec did) and find out putting the subframe/motor trans back in is not something i wanna experience.

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sticky Click here to enlarge
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    I understand you are educated but you don't have experience in the German luxury aftermarket.
    Really? I don't have experience with the German luxury aftermarket? Interesting. Do you know me personally? How have you come to this conclusion?

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by George Smooth Click here to enlarge
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    The way I see it a Swatch can tell the time and so can a Rolex. We don't all wear swatches.
    True, but a Zenith tells time even better, which is why Rolex has often bought movements from them for their finest watches. Being first to market doesn't guarantee best quality.

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Itsbrokeagain Click here to enlarge
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    The work needed to put these in (motor out of car job i believe) you better bet i want a perfect fitting product. To have it be a hair off (engine bay is very tight on these cars...its a feat what Weistec did) and find out putting the subframe/motor trans back in is not something i wanna experience.
    I don't disagree. But again, it's about the value proposition. The minimal gains from a downpipe/mid-pipe don't add up to the price Weistec is charging, IMHO. On the other hand, the turbo kit they are offering for the M157 actually makes sense. Offer downpipes that mate to factory mid-pipes for under $1000, now I'm on-board. Sorry, guys, but I've been wrenching on my own cars (of various nationalities) for over 17 years. This one just doesn't make sense to me.

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by nawlinstornado Click here to enlarge
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    I don't disagree. But again, it's about the value proposition. The minimal gains from a downpipe/mid-pipe don't add up to the price Weistec is charging, IMHO. On the other hand, the turbo kit they are offering for the M157 actually makes sense. Offer downpipes that mate to factory mid-pipes for under $1000, now I'm on-board. Sorry, guys, but I've been wrenching on my own cars (of various nationalities) for over 17 years. This one just doesn't make sense to me.
    Did you have a look at the flange design and shape? Doesn't look like a exhaust shop can just whack that together.
    E90 335iA Chiplogic Flash, AR Design DP, Helix Cooler, Stett Chargepipe, Vishnu Meth, aFe Dual Cones, Forge DP's, M3 Diff, RB Turbos and AE Exhaust, NX Wet Kit
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by nawlinstornado Click here to enlarge
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    Nope, not an expert on performance parts development nor pricing; nor do I claim to be. Simply quoting experience from education (MBA), working with/for R&D firms, and having owned my own business. And you're right - the market will bear what it will bear. But in the business world, high mark-up doesn't necessarily equate to high profits. And since Weistec has done it, and it can be copied (why do engineering work when someone else does it for you?), someone will come out with a competing product with similar performance for significantly less money - though it may not look as good (and Weistec's loogs gorgeous).

    Personal opinion: I'm more concerned with function than looks. While I find Weistec's product to be fabulous, I wouldn't consider it to be a good value. I'll wait for some competition in the market before committing to any down/mid-pipes.
    In my opinion you are paying the TAX of owning a Mercedes Benz, that’s it.
    Look for any US car for example the new generation Camaro, it is a new design but the aftermarket parts for it not expensive, like the exhaust, catback and the headers.
    You paid 100K for your Mercedes so you are willing to pay $5000 for 2 small pieces of pipes.

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by nawlinstornado Click here to enlarge
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    Nope, not an expert on performance parts development nor pricing; nor do I claim to be. Simply quoting experience from education (MBA), working with/for R&D firms, and having owned my own business. And you're right - the market will bear what it will bear. But in the business world, high mark-up doesn't necessarily equate to high profits. And since Weistec has done it, and it can be copied (why do engineering work when someone else does it for you?), someone will come out with a competing product with similar performance for significantly less money - though it may not look as good (and Weistec's loogs gorgeous).

    Personal opinion: I'm more concerned with function than looks. While I find Weistec's product to be fabulous, I wouldn't consider it to be a good value. I'll wait for some competition in the market before committing to any down/mid-pipes.
    How much did you spend on that MBA? I would ask for a refund if I were you. How do you figure Weistec is not a good value? All of their products are priced lower than their biggest competitors, go do some apples to apples comparisons on their M156 blower vs Kleemans M156 blower, Weistec is $3000 less and Weistec was first to market so that blows your theory out of the water, doesn't it ?. Compare the price of their M157 ecu tune to Renntecs tune, the Weist is half the price. Have you checked out the pricesmof any Brabus product lately lol? That Fancy MBA does not look to be doing much good lol.
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by George Smooth Click here to enlarge
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    Did you have a look at the flange design and shape? Doesn't look like a exhaust shop can just whack that together.
    Not sure which flange you're referencing. Down-pipe or mid-pipe? Either way, I wasn't saying that just any exhaust shop could do what Weistec has done, but there are a lot of machine shops equipped with multi-axis CNC equipment that could. Would it be as pretty? Probably not, but... Again, I'm not bashing Weistec; their engineering and quality seem top-notch. But being focused on function and not appearance, I don't see it as a good value since I don't lift my hood to show off my mods. And why didn't they make the down-pipe such that it could mate to the rest of the factory exhaust? Maybe I don't want to replace the mid-pipes.

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by JRCART Click here to enlarge
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    How much did you spend on that MBA? I would ask for a refund if I were you. How do you figure Weistec is not a good value? All of their products are priced lower than their biggest competitors, go do some apples to apples comparisons on their M156 blower vs Kleemans M156 blower, Weistec is $3000 less and Weistec was first to market so that blows your theory out of the water, doesn't it ?. Compare the price of their M157 ecu tune to Renntecs tune, the Weist is half the price. Have you checked out the pricesmof any Brabus product lately lol? That Fancy MBA does not look to be doing much good lol.
    Wow, so this conversation is devolving into personal attacks? I never said Weistec isn't a good value, simply that MY PERSONAL OPINION was that the DOWN-PIPE/MID-PIPE wasn't a good value. I HAVE MADE NO STATEMENTS THAT APPLY TO WEISTEC AS A WHOLE! I even called out the M157 turbo kit as something I thought was worth the money. So rather than making insults, how about you tell me why the pipe combo IS worth $5K?

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by GT2 Click here to enlarge
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    In my opinion you are paying the TAX of owning a Mercedes Benz, thatís it.
    Look for any US car for example the new generation Camaro, it is a new design but the aftermarket parts for it not expensive, like the exhaust, catback and the headers.
    You paid 100K for your Mercedes so you are willing to pay $5000 for 2 small pieces of pipes.
    And that's probably where the truth of it lies. But I find it amazing that the turbos, which are very complex and result in significant gains, cost so little (relatively speaking, IMHO) while the simple pipes provide little performance improvement but are (again, IMHO) relatively expensive.

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by nawlinstornado Click here to enlarge
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    Wow, so this conversation is devolving into personal attacks? I never said Weistec isn't a good value, simply that MY PERSONAL OPINION was that the DOWN-PIPE/MID-PIPE wasn't a good value. I HAVE MADE NO STATEMENTS THAT APPLY TO WEISTEC AS A WHOLE! I even called out the M157 turbo kit as something I thought was worth the money. So rather than making insults, how about you tell me why the pipe combo IS worth $5K?
    Not a personal attack whatsoever, just making an observation. You stated in an earlier post that you feel Weistecs products are over priced, did you not? I am just pointing out that that statement is 100% inaccurate and gave you two examples. You are the one that keeps talking about all your R&D experience and you brought up your MBA, surely someone with an MBA would be able to do a quick Google query to find ou that price information on their own and would not rely on someone like myself with a lowly HS education to bring those facts to light. I am not trting to be a dick, but you are posting things that are just simply untrue.
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  21. #45
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    I guess they do need to keep the lights on considering the low volumes produced. Surely it can be made cheaper and the margins are great but I guess the margins over the volumes only cover so much of the expenses. I wouldn't say its a tax per say but rather a cost of modifying low production cars and someone that does modify a car link that neither saves for it nor is too concerned with the price.
    E90 335iA Chiplogic Flash, AR Design DP, Helix Cooler, Stett Chargepipe, Vishnu Meth, aFe Dual Cones, Forge DP's, M3 Diff, RB Turbos and AE Exhaust, NX Wet Kit
    2009 C63 Weistec Stage 3 built everything
    2014 Golf 7 R

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by GT2 Click here to enlarge
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    In my opinion you are paying the TAX of owning a Mercedes Benz, that’s it.
    Look for any US car for example the new generation Camaro, it is a new design but the aftermarket parts for it not expensive, like the exhaust, catback and the headers.
    You paid 100K for your Mercedes so you are willing to pay $5000 for 2 small pieces of pipes.
    This is simply not true either....look up the word AMORTIZATION. Surely the guy with the MBA knows this word. Comparing the aftermarket for a Camaro or Mustang and an AMG is like comparing sunlight to moonlight, they build hundreds of thousands of Mustangs compared to thousands or tens of thousands of AMGs. Furthermore the market of AMG customers that are going to "tune" their cars is even smaller yet. R&D costs get amortized over a production life of a product. A company making headers for a Mustang might be able to amortize their R&D and tooling/fixturing costs over say 10,000 sets of headers as where a company building headers for an AMG has to amortize those same expenses over just 1,000 sets(if that)of headers.

    It is rather alarming how little some of you guys know about this stuff but you are all so quick to chime in and be experts.
    Last edited by JRCART; 03-17-2013 at 02:35 PM.
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by George Smooth Click here to enlarge
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    I guess they do need to keep the lights on considering the low volumes produced. Surely it can be made cheaper and the margins are great but I guess the margins over the volumes only cover so much of the expenses. I wouldn't say its a tax per say but rather a cost of modifying low production cars and someone that does modify a car link that neither saves for it nor is too concerned with the price.
    BINGO! You get it, do you have an MBA?
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by JRCART Click here to enlarge
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    Not a personal attack whatsoever, just making an observation. You stated in an earlier post that you feel Weistecs products are over priced, did you not? I am just pointing out that that statement is 100% inaccurate and gave you two examples. You are the one that keeps talking about all your R&D experience and you brought up your MBA, surely someone with an MBA would be able to do a quick Google query to find ou that price information on their own and would not rely on someone like myself with a lowly HS education to bring those facts to light. I am not trting to be a dick, but you are posting things that are just simply untrue.
    Actually, NO, I NEVER POSTED THAT WEISTEC PRODUCTS ARE OVERPRICED!!!! Please re-read if you disagree. I have only commented on one product, and that one product is the down-pip/mid-pipe combo for $4700! I have made no general statements about Weistec that weren't positive.

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by JRCART Click here to enlarge
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    I am not trting to be a dick,
    But you're succeeding. Click here to enlarge)

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by nawlinstornado Click here to enlarge
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    Personal opinion: I'm more concerned with function than looks. While I find Weistec's product to be fabulous, I wouldn't consider it to be a good value. I'll wait for some competition in the market before committing to any down/mid-pipes.
    This statement looks to me like you are calling Weistec's product overpriced...You said Weistec product is "not a good value". If you are not calling it overpriced please explain comment above.
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