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  1. #26
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Autobahn335i Click here to enlarge
    IMO these team orders were beyond ridiculous. What happened to real racing? Real sport? There was absolutely no necessity to give these orders at that state of the race. I'm glad VET said F that. And it's a shame that a TRIPLE world champion has to apologize afterwards for winning a race. But that's exactly why we no longer have characters in F1. Just marionettes. Makes me miss the 80's even more...
    Vettel never was not in a position to challenge for the win until Webber did what he was told and slowed down. Vettel knew that and the fact he passed him shows a lack of the team environment they operate within.

    Vettel made Horner and the entire Red Bull team look like a bunch of jokers and that is what he has to be sorry for.
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    I will quit being rude if you quit being stupid.

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by ecampbell Click here to enlarge
    Vettel never was not in a position to challenge for the win until Webber did what he was told and slowed down. Vettel knew that and the fact he passed him shows a lack of the team environment they operate within.

    Vettel made Horner and the entire Red Bull team look like a bunch of jokers and that is what he has to be sorry for.
    Agree with this comment.

    Vettel is a complete hack and he blind sided and robbed Webber when he wasn't looking plus Webber didnt even bother to block him because he didn't want to lose both cars for the season. The guy is just smarter and a more experienced driver.

    Webber is the better driver anyway, I'd put all on my money on him. Check his racing pedigree and history....Can you say LE MANS!

  3. #28
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    How is Vettel a hack though?

  4. #29
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Gondon Click here to enlarge
    Agree with this comment.

    Vettel is a complete hack and he blind sided and robbed Webber when he wasn't looking plus Webber didnt even bother to block him because he didn't want to lose both cars for the season. The guy is just smarter and a more experienced driver.

    Webber is the better driver anyway, I'd put all on my money on him. Check his racing pedigree and history....Can you say LE MANS!
    I tend to agree with you but just because someone drives Le Mans doesn't make them a better driver. If Weber was (a better driver) then he would have 3 titles. Vettel is clearly faster. But like any young driver, he is immature. He will get better, just takes time.

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sticky Click here to enlarge
    How is Vettel a hack though?
    Vettel is just a poster boy for RBR. Hamilton, Webber, Alonso, Rikonen, Schamuacher are all better drivers. It's staged publicity as well. F1 is becoming like the WWE. The guy only wins because the pro drivers get screwed or someone crashes into them or their cars magically fail, some extremely unfortunate freak events.

    Watch some of Senna's races from the late 80's to early 90's and you'll see driving.

  6. #31
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Gondon Click here to enlarge
    Vettel is just a poster boy for RBR. Hamilton, Webber, Alonso, Rikonen, Schamuacher are all better drivers. It's staged publicity as well. F1 is becoming like the WWE. The guy only wins because the pro drivers get screwed or someone crashes into them or their cars magically fail, some extremely unfortunate freak events.

    Watch some of Senna's races from the late 80's to early 90's and you'll see driving.
    I think you're a bit quick to put VET down. Alot lies in the fac that he's a very good qualifier. IMO he'll be able to break Schumi's pole position record. And that starting position advantage can be carried on in alot of races.

    But without a doubt he's got nerves of steel. How he recovered from the misfortunate first lap in Brazil last season, after being relevated to last position, to gain a 3rd title with just a couple points in front of ALO was stunning!
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  7. #32
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    Vettel's legacy will never be cemented as one of the greatest until he drives something that isn't consistently the quickest cars on the grid IMO.

  8. #33
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Gondon Click here to enlarge
    Vettel is just a poster boy for RBR. Hamilton, Webber, Alonso, Rikonen, Schamuacher are all better drivers. It's staged publicity as well. F1 is becoming like the WWE. The guy only wins because the pro drivers get screwed or someone crashes into them or their cars magically fail, some extremely unfortunate freak events.

    Watch some of Senna's races from the late 80's to early 90's and you'll see driving.
    HUH ??? Please explain to me how Vettel has 3 titles and continues to be faster than all the drivers you mentioned. You may not like the kid, but you cannot argue his record. A record that puts him in a very elite group of drivers that only Schumacher is in. And he is the youngest 3 time champion so it's very possible considering his age that he will go on to be the most winning driver in history. Not to mention the most poles in F1 history, 15 out of 19 in 2011. Like him or not, he is a damn good driver.

  9. #34
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Gondon Click here to enlarge
    Vettel is just a poster boy for RBR. Hamilton, Webber, Alonso, Rikonen, Schamuacher are all better drivers. It's staged publicity as well. F1 is becoming like the WWE. The guy only wins because the pro drivers get screwed or someone crashes into them or their cars magically fail, some extremely unfortunate freak events.

    Watch some of Senna's races from the late 80's to early 90's and you'll see driving.
    There wil never be another senna so this is a ridiculous standard. Vettel isnt a hack.

  10. #35
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    In his first year driving for Red Bull in 2009, Vettel finished the season as the youngest-ever World Drivers' championship runner-up. The following year he went on to become the youngest driver ever to win the World Drivers' Championship. In the same year he helped Red Bull win the team's first World Constructors' Championship. He followed up his first championship with a second in 2011, becoming the youngest double as well as youngest consecutive champion. Vettel won the 2012 F1 World Championship, becoming the youngest triple champion in the history of the sport.[2]
    Vettel holds numerous other "youngest" Formula One records, among them: the youngest driver to have taken part in an official practice session of a Grand Prix, to score championship points, to lead a race, to secure pole position,[3] and to win a race.[4]
    yep, definitely a hack. Click here to enlarge
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  11. #36
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by gary88 Click here to enlarge
    Vettel's legacy will never be cemented as one of the greatest until he drives something that isn't consistently the quickest cars on the grid IMO.
    And how the $#@! would that happen ? How is one of the best drivers in the sport going to end up driving for Caterham for example ?? If you are talking about putting the guy under pressure and giving him a challenge just look at how he performed in Brazil last year.

  12. #37
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Gondon Click here to enlarge
    Agree with this comment.

    Vettel is a complete hack and he blind sided and robbed Webber when he wasn't looking plus Webber didnt even bother to block him because he didn't want to lose both cars for the season. The guy is just smarter and a more experienced driver.

    Webber is the better driver anyway, I'd put all on my money on him. Check his racing pedigree and history....Can you say LE MANS!
    Another thing about your ridiculous Le Mans comment...Active F1 drivers are not allowed to drive in other racing series so that pretty much negates your Le Mans theory....

  13. #38
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by LZH Click here to enlarge
    And how the $#@! would that happen ? How is one of the best drivers in the sport going to end up driving for Caterham for example ?? If you are talking about putting the guy under pressure and giving him a challenge just look at how he performed in Brazil last year.
    Never implied he'd have to go to a back of the grid team to do so. Look at what Alonso did last year, the F2012 was an absolute dog and he brought it to within 3 points of a WDC. That car had no right to be that high. If Grosjean didn't almost take his head off at Spa he'd most likely be 3x WDC now.

  14. #39
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by gary88 Click here to enlarge
    Never implied he'd have to go to a back of the grid team to do so. Look at what Alonso did last year, the F2012 was an absolute dog and he brought it to within 3 points of a WDC. That car had no right to be that high. If Grosjean didn't almost take his head off at Spa he'd most likely be 3x WDC now.
    Well...then how would the best driver in the sport right now end up with a $#@!ty car ? And how do you know the F2012 was a "dog" ? Cause of what the media reported ? Nah man, he's (Alonso) just a damn good driver too. You keep proving my point for me. Give Vettel a couple more years to mature and he will be breaking every record. Mark my words.

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    Look ultimately the point is Vettel is not some scrub.

  16. #41
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    A F1 driver can only become a world champion if he's got the talent the car(design/endurance/reliability), the team (technique/mechanics/pitstops)and the teamboss (tactics/strategy)for it.
    If one of those factors is missing it's not gonna happen.
    Vettel is a selfish ass, I don't know anyone who is a real fan of him or his driving.
    But to state he can not drive and has it all to thank to Red Bull is downright ridiculous.

    We have the luxurious position that there are 5 World Champions currently driving in the competition. And all are in competitive cars.
    Let's just enjoy the championship.
    There are two theories to arguing with women. Neither one works

  17. #42
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by DavidV Click here to enlarge
    Vettel is a selfish ass, I don't know anyone who is a real fan of him or his driving.
    So is Kobe Brant. He's got rings.

  18. #43
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    To end this discussion Red Bull announced that there will be no more team orders for 2013.
    How's that for a surprise.
    Let's wait and see what happens coming sunday at the China GP.

  19. #44
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by DavidV Click here to enlarge
    To end this discussion Red Bull announced that there will be no more team orders for 2013.
    How's that for a surprise.
    Let's wait and see what happens coming sunday at the China GP.
    What the hell? No more team orders?

  20. #45
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    nope, Red Bull as well as Mercedes have stated they no longer give team orders to their own drivers for position battles.
    There are two theories to arguing with women. Neither one works

  21. #46
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    How does that even make any sense?

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sticky Click here to enlarge
    How does that even make any sense?
    Well, it's debatable.

    Last race both Nico Rosberg and Seb. Vettel felt they were faster than their teammates.
    They were, but that was due to team strategy, as in fuel and engine saving modes.
    Fact is, the team sent Hamilton off to race with too little fuel, counting on a longer wet period.
    So at 75% of the race he was ordered to slow down, select another engine map to preserve fuel.
    That broadcast was picked up by Red Bull, ordering Webber to do the same.
    The season is still long, and the teams are only allowed to use a limited amount of engines and gearboxes, and since the competition was slowing down securing a 1-2 finish for Red Bull, Webber and Vettel got the order to preserve engine life.
    So Vettel overtaking Webber when the gloves were off was considered very bad manners, undermining Horner's authority and generally screwing Webber.
    Rosberg kept his order, but there was also discussion in the Meredes stable after the race.
    As a result now both teams have stated they no longer will give team orders between team mates when fighting for position.
    There are two theories to arguing with women. Neither one works

  23. #48
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    But if one teammate has more points later in the season it makes all the sense in the world for that guy to take the lead but whatever it's an interesting twist.

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