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  1. #51
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    It was a loaded question because I already knew the answer.
    The weight difference will be nothing....or minimal at worst.

    On the other hand, the benefits of the 5.5L over the 4.0L will be:
    -increased low and mid range torque
    -improved turbo spool
    -higher power limits with equal octane
    -lower lifetime RPM

    The 5.5L might even offer better average mileage, especially if both engines have cylinder deactivation.


    You were attempting to make an argument using the attributes of a focused sports/track car with a naturally aspirated engine that is slung extremely low in it's lightweight chassis for a combination that will live at high RPMs and capitalize on it's ability to maintain speed in corners.
    Unfortunately, this discussion is about a TWIN TURBO engine that favors BOOST over RPM and a NON-lightweight LUXURY SEDAN with corresponding engine positioning and ride height, so the points you were attempting to make just don't apply. Not even close.

    But, I did enjoy watching you regurgitate generic quotes shared in almost every sports coupe magazine tests.
    Thanks for the laugh.



    Now, getting back on thread topic:
    Let's all hope that the C63 gets the 5.5L M157 and not the puny 4.0L.
    We already know that the 4.0TT from Audi outperforms the 4.6TT from MB. (Audi S6 vs CLS550)

    So, I would love to see the next C63 get the 5.5L so it can absolutely SMASH the competition.

  2. #52
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by TT C6 Click here to enlarge
    It was a loaded question because I already knew the answer.
    The weight difference will be nothing....or minimal at worst.

    On the other hand, the benefits of the 5.5L over the 4.0L will be:
    -increased low and mid range torque
    -improved turbo spool
    -higher power limits with equal octane
    -lower lifetime RPM

    The 5.5L might even offer better average mileage, especially if both engines have cylinder deactivation.
    The benefits of the larger 5.5L TT are not the topic, we all know it will out perform the 4L TT stock for stock. Not sure why you are so hung up on the M157 Click here to enlarge. Wouldn't it stand to reason that if/when AMG builds another totally new 4L TT it will be just as good as the M157 and after a tune be as potent as the stock M157 ? I think that's the point you are missing because you are so overwhelmed by the M157.


    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by TT C6 Click here to enlarge
    You were attempting to make an argument using the attributes of a focused sports/track car with a naturally aspirated engine that is slung extremely low in it's lightweight chassis for a combination that will live at high RPMs and capitalize on it's ability to maintain speed in corners.
    Please don't put words in my mouth because I never stated any of the above. I simply said that a lighter weight motor and rotating assembly pays big dividends due to where it is placed.


    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by TT C6 Click here to enlarge
    Unfortunately, this discussion is about a TWIN TURBO engine that favors BOOST over RPM and a NON-lightweight LUXURY SEDAN with corresponding engine positioning and ride height, so the points you were attempting to make just don't apply. Not even close.
    Thanks for proving my point about the boost. After you tune the "puny" 4L it will have more boost, same power output as the M157 and less weight. And they have already stated that they will be shaving in excess of 200# off the new car so weight savings is obviously high in the list as far as AMG is concerned. Which goes back to my original point about a lighter motor.

    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by TT C6 Click here to enlarge
    But, I did enjoy watching you regurgitate generic quotes shared in almost every sports coupe magazine tests.
    Thanks for the laugh.
    I haven't picked up a car related magazine in over 10 years but that's nice to know where you get most of your knowledge Click here to enlarge.

  3. #53
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    Not sure why I'm hung up on the M157? Click here to enlarge
    Aftermarket support, forced induction, displacement, mass produced and shared by multiple chassis and models, etc, etc, etc.
    Your comparison of a tuned M177 (4.0TT AMG) vs a STOCK M157 is just plain stupid.
    Compare a TUNED M157 to a tuned M177.

    If the 4.0TT only has a smaller displacement due to a smaller bore, it will actually be HEAVIER than the 5.5L.
    Instead of trying to teach you Forced Induction 101 and Engine Building 101, I can simply tell you that a 4.0TT will not make the kind of power that the M157 already has, especially not on 93 octane and a street tune.
    Click here to enlarge
    http://blog.amsperformance.com/2013/...turbos-787whp/


    Add performance AWD to this video below and a M157 equipped sedan will make the ultimate daily driver.


    You post that I get my knowledge from magazines? Click here to enlarge
    I've educated myself at the race track and at shops, not in the magazine aisle.
    Bought my first engine to build 2 years before I got my license, and my 1st car a year before I got my drivers permit.
    Had that car at the track the week I bought it, and have done so with every car I have purchased ever since.


    I only read car magazine tests for independent measurements of curb weight, 1/4 mile terminal velocity, and observed mile per gallon.
    Maybe you should pick up a car magazine. It sounds like even those rags could teach you a lot.
    Last edited by TT C6; 06-22-2013 at 05:50 PM.

  4. #54
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    It's not getting the M157 I'm not sure why you are making a big deal about it. It's getting a 4.0 liter V8.

    It's not all just displacement. Yes, the M157 is potent but the next gen C63, SLK55 AM, and the SLC sports car will all have this M177 motor.

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  5. #55
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sticky Click here to enlarge
    It's not getting the M157 I'm not sure why you are making a big deal about it. It's getting a 4.0 liter V8.

    It's not all just displacement. Yes, the M157 is potent but the next gen C63, SLK55 AM, and the SLC sports car will all have this M177 motor.
    It's going to be fun to revisit this thread when the car actually does come out LOL. My bet is someone will have a heap of crow to stuff down their pie hole.

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by LZH Click here to enlarge
    It's going to be fun to revisit this thread when the car actually does come out LOL. My bet is someone will have a heap of crow to stuff down their pie hole.
    So, YOU actually WANT the C63 to get the smaller engine.
    If for no reason other than because you think it proves me wrong for some reason.
    Wow. You're a piece of work.

    I'm not eating anything because I have no idea whether the C63 is getting the M177 or the M157.
    I posted that I am HOPING the reports that I have read are true that say the C63 is getting the M157.

    In the meantime, eat a bracciole.
    I'm sure it's something that you regularly have down your throat.

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sticky Click here to enlarge
    It's not getting the M157 I'm not sure why you are making a big deal about it.
    Click here to enlargefacepalmClick here to enlarge

    You're right.
    If the M157 doesn't get placed in chassis that offers 4matic with a low curb weight, I will just buy something NON-mercedes.

  8. #58
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sticky Click here to enlarge
    It's not getting the M157 I'm not sure why you are making a big deal about it. It's getting a 4.0 liter V8.
    Yup.

    OP move on with your life.


  9. #59
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by TT C6 Click here to enlarge
    So, YOU actually WANT the C63 to get the smaller engine.
    If for no reason other than because you think it proves me wrong for some reason.
    Wow. You're a piece of work.
    Hey $#@!....when did I ever say that ?? Sure I'd like for it to get the M157, it would be insane, but it's not happening as has been reported many times. You sound like a spoiled little kid saying "I want, I want, I want!!". Well Boo hoo cry me a $#@!ing river AMG is not going to build the car you want, WAHHH. Guess you will have to settle for an Audi.

    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by TT C6 Click here to enlarge
    I'm not eating anything because I have no idea whether the C63 is getting the M177 or the M157.
    You will be eating crow when the 4L TT gets tuned for pump gas and puts out more than the M157 which you said would be impossible. Until then, STFU.

    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by TT C6 Click here to enlarge
    I posted that I am HOPING the reports that I have read are true that say the C63 is getting the M157.

    In the meantime, eat a bracciole.
    I'm sure it's something that you regularly have down your throat.
    Bracciole ?? Rolled flank steak ? A gay reference perhaps? Stay classy douche bag.

  10. #60
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    You guys could be more respectful while discussing this but whatever do your thing.

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  11. #61
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sticky Click here to enlarge
    You guys could be more respectful while discussing this but whatever do your thing.
    Hey dude I tried. As I stated earlier, I was pretty nice until he started in with the "you can keep your poor suggestions" and "set of balls" comments.

  12. #62
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    He certainly escalated things no doubt.

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    0 out of 2 members liked this post. Yes Reputation No
    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sticky Click here to enlarge
    He certainly escalated things no doubt.
    Are you kidding me?

    I said anyone with a set of balls wants the larger version of the same engine.
    When I posted that, I though everyone on this board had a set of balls, so it wasn't meant as an insult to anyone.
    Maybe I gave some people too much credit.

    Yup, I told they guy who told me to buy a S4 he could keep his poor suggestion.
    If that's "escalation", some of you need to thicken up your skin a little

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by LZH Click here to enlarge
    You will be eating crow when the 4L TT gets tuned for pump gas and puts out more than the M157 which you said would be impossible. Until then, STFU.
    Can someone please educate this guy above?
    He still can't get it through his head that the 5.5L M157 will always make more power than the 4.0L M177.
    Stock vs Stock
    Tuned vs Tuned
    Modified vs Modified

    I'll ignore all the antagonistic stuff because of that whole "arguing with fools" saying is true.

  15. #65
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by TT C6 Click here to enlarge
    Are you kidding me?

    I said anyone with a set of balls wants the larger version of the same engine.
    When I posted that, I though everyone on this board had a set of balls, so it wasn't meant as an insult to anyone.
    Maybe I gave some people too much credit.

    Yup, I told they guy who told me to buy a S4 he could keep his poor suggestion.
    If that's "escalation", some of you need to thicken up your skin a little
    You're new I don't think you know how thick of skin you exactly need to be here but you could ease up and just to be respectful.

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by TT C6 Click here to enlarge
    Can someone please educate this guy above?
    He still can't get it through his head that the 5.5L M157 will always make more power than the 4.0L M177.
    Stock vs Stock
    Tuned vs Tuned
    Modified vs Modified

    I'll ignore all the antagonistic stuff because of that whole "arguing with fools" saying is true.
    Will the M275 always make more horsepower than the M157 because it has more displacement?

    Yes. 5.5 liters is preferable from a displacement standpoint. But that doesn't mean the 4.0 will be junk. It's targeted to come in a 585 horsepower trim. That's saying something.

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sticky Click here to enlarge
    Will the M275 always make more horsepower than the M157 because it has more displacement?

    Yes. 5.5 liters is preferable from a displacement standpoint. But that doesn't mean the 4.0 will be junk. It's targeted to come in a 585 horsepower trim. That's saying something.
    Exactly. Which make the statement below even more idiotic:

    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by TT C6 Click here to enlarge
    I can simply tell you that a 4.0TT will not make the kind of power that the M157 already has, especially not on 93 octane and a street tune.
    If the 4L M177 is going to get factory tuned (probably S package) for 585hp, that means it ALREADY has more power than the M157 - stock for stock. Tune the M177 and it'll prob be 650hp on pump gas.
    Put your bib on little boy, your crow is being served.

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    0 out of 1 members liked this post. Yes Reputation No
    This LZH character is completely clueless about foced induction and engines and he's trying to argue with someone who has been building forced induction cars for 20 years.


    First of all, engines are very simple. The more air in, and the more air out, the more power you make.
    You have 3 basic ways of making power:
    displacement
    RPM
    Forced induction

    All things being equal (which the M177 and the M156 will probably be) the larger displacement version of the same engine will make more power.
    Sure, you can change the amount of CFM the turbos will flow, and fine tune the air/fuel ratios, to make more power.
    But, whatever can be done to the M177, can also be done to the M156.
    So, in the end, the 5.5L version will always make more power than the 4.0L version of the same engine when all the parameter are equal.
    (amount of air the turbos are flowing, octane, RPM, etc, etc etc)

    Based on the name of this site, I assumed this forum would be filled with experience FI guys.
    If so, someone please school this kid because I'm getting tired of being the only one making any sense in this thread.
    Last edited by TT C6; 06-24-2013 at 07:18 PM.

  19. #69
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by TT C6 Click here to enlarge
    This LZH character is completely clueless about foced induction and engines and he's trying to argue with someone who has been building forced induction cars for 20 years.

    Based on the name of this site, I assumed this forum would be filled with experience FI guys.
    If so, someone please school this kid because I'm getting tired of being the only one making any sense in this thread.
    How is a 3.2 liter BMW motor making over 1000 whp while the M157 has yet to crack that barrier?

    Will another 4.0 liter V8 say the one in the M3 with its 8500 redline make quite a bit of power compared to larger motors? How is that?

    Is displacement the sole factor in engine design?

    Experienced FI guys? We have the best. You're brand new and taking shots because you are demanding an M157 and not getting your wish? Seriously?

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sticky Click here to enlarge
    Experienced FI guys? We have the best. You're brand new and taking shots because you are demanding an M157 and not getting your wish? Seriously?
    The best? LoL
    Ease back.

    The best daily driven sedans?
    Maybe.
    But, the BEST ??
    Not even close.

    I'm brand new? Hardly
    A lot of us were building cars before the internet, let along this site. Some of have been at it since before there was an AMG.
    Think about it.
    It's not AMG cars that have been winning all the events I've been going to for the last 20 years.
    It's URG Lambos and GTRs that are dominating the mile events in recent years. It's not anything from AMG.
    In 2013, modded AMG are finally catching up to the 9 second daily drivers we were building in our driveways 20 years ago.

    You quoted my post above while I was still adding to it.
    Some of the answers you were looking for are in there.

    It sounds like some people need to open a book on engines and forced induction.

  21. #71
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by TT C6 Click here to enlarge
    The best? LoL
    Ease back.
    On what? Most powerful forced induction BMW's and Benzes are right here. You ease back.

    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by TT C6 Click here to enlarge
    The best daily driven sedans?
    Maybe.
    But, the BEST ??
    Not even close.

    It's not AMG cars that have been winning all the events I've been going to for the last 20 years.
    It's URG Lambos and GTRs that are dominating the mile events in recent years. It's not anything from AMG.
    In 2013, modded AMG are finally catching up to the 9 second daily drivers we were building in our driveways 20 years ago.
    You're on benzboost obviously I'm referring to the best benzes. Does the title say lamboboost? Nope, but that's coming.

    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by TT C6 Click here to enlarge

    It sounds like some people need to open a book on engines and forced induction.
    Absolutely I suggest it starts with you.

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  22. #72
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sticky Click here to enlarge
    Absolutely I suggest it starts with you.
    A lot of comedians on here.
    Maybe you should change the name to BenzGiggles.com

  23. #73
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by TT C6 Click here to enlarge
    A lot of comedians on here.
    Maybe you should change the name to BenzGiggles.com
    That's next after givemeanm157oryoulosemybusinessbenz.com

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by TT C6 Click here to enlarge
    This LZH character is completely clueless about foced induction and engines and he's trying to argue with someone who has been building forced induction cars for 20 years.
    Wow so you have been building motors for 20 years ? Big $#@!in deal. You don't know $#@! about me or what I've done and I don't feel the need to post my resume like you do.


    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by TT C6 Click here to enlarge
    First of all, engines are very simple. The more air in, and the more air out, the more power you make.
    You have 3 basic ways of making power:
    displacement
    RPM
    Forced induction
    Yeah an internal combustion motor is just a big air pump blah blah blah thanks for the engines for dummies lesson.Click here to enlarge

    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by TT C6 Click here to enlarge
    All things being equal (which the M177 and the M156 will probably be) the larger displacement version of the same engine will make more power.
    Sure, you can change the amount of CFM the turbos will flow, and fine tune the air/fuel ratios, to make more power.
    But, whatever can be done to the M177, can also be done to the M156.
    So, in the end, the 5.5L version will always make more power than the 4.0L version of the same engine when all the parameter are equal.
    (amount of air the turbos are flowing, octane, RPM, etc, etc etc)
    Do you have a reading comprehension problem or something. When did I ever say the M157 is less potent than the smaller M177? I've simply said that you are coming across as a whiny little $#@! cause AMG isn't going the build the car YOU want. Furthermore I've stated the M177 that the new C is going to get is going to be very tunable, have almost equal power to the M157 in a smaller lighter package. I've never doubted that the M157 CAN make more power. But who gives a $#@! ??????? It's not going into the new C class so get over it and start shopping for an Audi already. Man....I'm surprised you aren't complaining AMG doesn't put the TT V12 into the C class for you.Click here to enlarge

    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by TT C6 Click here to enlarge
    Based on the name of this site, I assumed this forum would be filled with experience FI guys.
    If so, someone please school this kid because I'm getting tired of being the only one making any sense in this thread.
    School me ? LOL, the only person getting schooled here is you, chump. Now run along and go cry about something else.

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sticky Click here to enlarge
    That's next after givemeanm157oryoulosemybusinessbenz.com
    Click here to enlarge

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