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  1. #51
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Flinchy Click here to enlarge
    Because an octagon is a 2 dimensional shape and a pyramid is 3 dimensional
    If you mean octagonal prism or 8 sided die.. well buildings have already been deigned as such, so if we disregard the whole enraging the world… absolutely it’s physically possible were some mad billionaire genius to want to do it.
    A Pentagon is a two dimensional shape yet there exists a building called the Pentagon with three dimensions. Oooooooohh!

    Yay we can turn the Pyramids into Octagons that means we should do it.

    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Flinchy Click here to enlarge
    Just as idiotic as you wanting to supercharge your NA high revs designed motor. Actually probably less idiotic. Doesn’t matter, it works though, and it’s cool.
    Right and those idiots with Gallardos getting turbo kits for their NA motors are stupid too. More like stupid fast and beating down whatever you have right? Just like supercharged M3's do right? Just like turbocharged M3's do right?

    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Flinchy Click here to enlarge
    also, the S2k when boosted needs a minimum massively thicker head gasket (or deck spacer), and realistically does need new internals.
    Uh huh:



    Putting a turbo on that car is EXACTLY the same thing as taking a stump puller and making it rev high. It's basically the exact same process right? LOL.

    That's a 2.0 liter putting out 700 whp because of how good of an NA design it is and because of what it was actually designed to rev to. Nice to not have to reinvent the wheel eh?

    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Flinchy Click here to enlarge
    Wow you’re actually joking now, I can see it. V8’s revving higher than I6’s on average, now I’ve heard it all. You should know that 1st+2nd order imbalances are worse than 3rd/torsional. The V8’s will tear themselves a part long before the I6’s… How many 10-12k RPM V8's (streetable preferably) do you know of and how many 10-12k RPM I6's?
    You were saying something?



    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Flinchy Click here to enlarge
    Why not just accept what your S65 is and leave it, you should follow your own advice and raise the compression, forget boost, because you KNOW it was designed as a high revving NA motor. Let it sing over 10k 4.4 stroker or whatever, because that’s what it was designed for, you’re just ruining it and being stupid you realize?
    Boosting a motor with high volumetric efficiency is a good thing. Once again, it is not the same thing as trying to raise the redline to thousands above what a motor was designed for. You can't just say hey hit 9k rpm on this Dodger Viper but you certainly can add a supercharger to it and destroy just about anything out there. The fact you are saying these two completely different things are the same thing really makes me scratch my head.

    You know Ford took what they had as a naturally aspirated motor to make the Ford GT right? The heads were inspired by the Cobra R which was a 5.4 liter naturally aspirated V8. Do you have any clue what you're even talking about?

    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Flinchy Click here to enlarge
    It’s a point of discussion, it’s not harming anything, and if you paid attention, without your interjection led to ‘hold on, how much can the injectors really do’. You added no value to the discussion by going ‘LOL GUYS NO LOL’.
    What I'm laughing at is the blind Gran Turismo faith you're displaying. 'It can hit 9k it can it can it can be done I swear it.' Typing and doing are different things.

    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Flinchy Click here to enlarge
    And what you’re suggesting is basically ‘guys, stop development on the N54, it’s done, this is all it will ever be’ which is clearly not the truth.
    Hey, it’s not like with the S65 you have to lower compression and sleeve the motor for big power do you? Nah of course not. It’s perfect.
    No what I'm saying is to address issues that currently exist before jumping 12 steps ahead.

    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Flinchy Click here to enlarge
    Seriously, if EVERYONE had your attitude, I doubt any motor would ever have broken 1k WHP, because it’s NORMAL to have to have a totally redone valvetrain/cams/internals/fuelling system for engine builds. NORMAL.
    Makes sense because I'm not one to push the envelope or anything.

    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Flinchy Click here to enlarge
    If you don’t realise that this is the discussion, why are you bothering? We’re obviously not on the same page lol
    That's because I live in reality.

    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Flinchy Click here to enlarge
    And how was the design changed to rev higher? It’s barely an increase, they probably needn’t have changed a thing. Maybe stiffer springs?
    They probably haven't changed a thing? Oh yeah it's not like they changed the entire freaking motor. Oh wait, they did.

  2. #52
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Flinchy Click here to enlarge
    Carbs are still almost mysterious to me, don't get a chance to work on them much (just mates with celicas/datto's and stuff Click here to enlarge) haha

    any of that may be possible, idk, i don't know anywhere near close to enough on the software/fuelling/internals side in depth... But at that point it's probably way easier and probably more effective just to add port injection. Things like pressure is dictated by HPFP, which the dual HPFP should be able to keep up. at any flow rate.
    Well, think of our fuel system as a miniature diesel fuel setup, like on the powerstrokes. I believe they run around 40k psi on the high pressure side. They also run dual hpfp's as an upgraded fuel system rather than a single HPFP. A lot of similarities, if I knew where to find more info on our car I would see how much of what the diesel guys have already learned and accomplished might translate over to our platform.
    2009 335i coupe back to stock...for now

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  3. #53
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    All I have to say is 7200rpm already proven safe, or 7500 proven meh ok with headwork by a few st guys, isn't really what I would consider low or a stump puller. I think 8k is an obtainable goal with lots of work, any higher is impractical to shoot for. But even an 8000rpm n54 with 1000whp is gonna be a stump puller compared to a s65 with a remap and 9k rev limit amirite?

  4. #54
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sticky Click here to enlarge
    A Pentagon is a two dimensional shape yet there exists a building called the Pentagon with three dimensions. Oooooooohh!

    Yay we can turn the Pyramids into Octagons that means we should do it.
    LOL ok you got me good there man, I’ll pay that hahahaha.
    The question is, which brings this back to apples to oranges.. why do you stand to benefit from turning it into an octagon? IDK
    What do you stand to benefit from raising redline? Fasts.


    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sticky Click here to enlarge
    Right and those idiots with Gallardos getting turbo kits for their NA motors are stupid too. More like stupid fast and beating down whatever you have right? Just like supercharged M3's do right? Just like turbocharged M3's do right?
    The ones that bolt on the turbos with no internal changes? More money than sense. Remember, we’re talking ‘not redesigning things’ here. Ticking time-bombs… heck, even the built ones.. see them break all the time on the dragtimes Russian stuff lol
    Hey, you shouldn’t be siding with FI-ing NA motors, it’s not what the engineers designed them for, that’s what you’re saying.

    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sticky Click here to enlarge
    Uh huh:

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nqT1Ft_DnqM

    Putting a turbo on that car is EXACTLY the same thing as taking a stump puller and making it rev high. It's basically the exact same process right? LOL.

    That's a 2.0 liter putting out 700 whp because of how good of an NA design it is and because of what it was actually designed to rev to. Nice to not have to reinvent the wheel eh?
    Well I stand corrected. Absolute freak motor, makes me want one even more.
    Seems 600whp Is about the limit before a build from a quick check, that’s $#@!loads. Bossin.
    Again, freak motor though. Put your Blower on without building the S65 and get it to triple the power without blowing. I dare you. Or an S85.. S85’s are beautiful, but they’re not making 1200-500whp on their standard internals.





    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sticky Click here to enlarge
    HEYYY Totally doesn’t count hahaha, when you have a 1.56” stroke (or so).. Pneumatic valve ‘springs’ and light weight materials more precisely balanced than just about anything on the road..
    And even then, it’s not like they last long lol.
    Formula guys could make a 3 cylinder race worthy… Heck, lets see what they do with singles LOL.

    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sticky Click here to enlarge
    Boosting a motor with high volumetric efficiency is a good thing. Once again, it is not the same thing as trying to raise the redline to thousands above what a motor was designed for. You can't just say hey hit 9k rpm on this Dodger Viper but you certainly can add a supercharger to it and destroy just about anything out there. The fact you are saying these two completely different things are the same thing really makes me scratch my head.

    You know Ford took what they had as a naturally aspirated motor to make the Ford GT right? The heads were inspired by the Cobra R which was a 5.4 liter naturally aspirated V8. Do you have any clue what you're even talking about?
    yeah that’s true, but there’s still nothing wrong with wanting to raise a redline through the roof.
    And the Viper isn’t a high RPM motor.. it’s a low rev non boosted.. you could choose to boost it for reasonable money. You could choose to high RPM it for reasonable money… or both for unreasonable money. That’s more this discussion.
    I thought we were talking Boosting a high RPM motor, or high RPMing a boosted motor.
    And yes, people have made their Vipers spin to 9K RPM FWIW.

    And you know ford did some pretty decent engineering getting the GT built right? That’s what you’re saying is a stupid idea, they’re stupid for putting loads of effort into the Ford GT motor.

    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sticky Click here to enlarge
    What I'm laughing at is the blind Gran Turismo faith you're displaying. 'It can hit 9k it can it can it can be done I swear it.' Typing and doing are different things.
    You still haven’t done anything but whatever the opposite is.. blind.. unfaith? Yeah of course this is just bench racing, but it’s within the realm of possibility for the most part. Not like we’re chasing 18k RPM formula 1 speeds or something Click here to enlarge



    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sticky Click here to enlarge
    No what I'm saying is to address issues that currently exist before jumping 12 steps ahead.
    Or, we can have harmless discussions of ‘what if’ without actually being 100% LETS DO THIS RIGHT NOW GUYS. DROP EVERYTHING.

    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sticky Click here to enlarge
    Makes sense because I'm not one to push the envelope or anything.
    You’re pretty much saying don’t bother in this case. Who cares if they try and shatter the block into 11ty pieces, they tried and that’s all that matters… unless they then can’t afford to restart. Then that’s just stupid…

    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sticky Click here to enlarge
    That's because I live in reality.
    Lol right. Well i play saltybet so i have DREAAAMSSSS

    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sticky Click here to enlarge
    They probably haven't changed a thing? Oh yeah it's not like they changed the entire freaking motor. Oh wait, they did.
    Well yeah, they did… seemingly mostly to please purists like you, so you don’t complain that it’s not a unique highly developed racecar motor..
    boop

  5. #55
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by mjmarovi Click here to enlarge
    Well, think of our fuel system as a miniature diesel fuel setup, like on the powerstrokes. I believe they run around 40k psi on the high pressure side. They also run dual hpfp's as an upgraded fuel system rather than a single HPFP. A lot of similarities, if I knew where to find more info on our car I would see how much of what the diesel guys have already learned and accomplished might translate over to our platform.
    One issue is totally different injector and pump types

    we can't even compare to the VAG Direct injection motors because it's that different Click here to enlarge

    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by V8Bait Click here to enlarge
    All I have to say is 7200rpm already proven safe, or 7500 proven meh ok with headwork by a few st guys, isn't really what I would consider low or a stump puller. I think 8k is an obtainable goal with lots of work, any higher is impractical to shoot for. But even an 8000rpm n54 with 1000whp is gonna be a stump puller compared to a s65 with a remap and 9k rev limit amirite?
    really 7500rpm on singles? that's interesting to know.

    I agree with everything in this post though. Stump puller and all Click here to enlarge
    boop

  6. #56
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Flinchy Click here to enlarge
    why do you stand to benefit from turning it into an octagon? IDK
    Because Octagons are the superior shape and more aesthetically pleasing.

    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Flinchy Click here to enlarge
    The ones that bolt on the turbos with no internal changes? More money than sense. Remember, we’re talking ‘not redesigning things’ here. Ticking time-bombs… heck, even the built ones.. see them break all the time on the dragtimes Russian stuff lol
    Hey, you shouldn’t be siding with FI-ing NA motors, it’s not what the engineers designed them for, that’s what you’re saying.
    No I'm a proponent of boosting high volumetric efficiency engines. I'm all about boosting them. They are better boost and performance platforms. That isn't reinventing the wheel or doing something the engine can't do.

    Here's a stock internal Gallardo with twins by the way, wow what a ticking time bomb: http://www.germanboost.com/showthrea...o-dyno-numbers

    You were saying?

    I guess every SC or turbo kit in the world for every NA motor is a ticking time bomb too eh?

    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Flinchy Click here to enlarge
    Well I stand corrected.
    No kidding.

    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Flinchy Click here to enlarge
    HEYYY Totally doesn’t count hahaha, when you have a 1.56” stroke (or so).. Pneumatic valve ‘springs’ and light weight materials more precisely balanced than just about anything on the road..
    And even then, it’s not like they last long lol.
    Formula guys could make a 3 cylinder race worthy… Heck, lets see what they do with singles LOL.
    Doesn't count? Ok 20k rpm V8 doesn't count everyone move along. The idiots at Cosworth clearly should have used an inline-6 for 20k rpm.

    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Flinchy Click here to enlarge
    And the Viper isn’t a high RPM motor.. it’s a low rev non boosted.. you could choose to boost it for reasonable money. You could choose to high RPM it for reasonable money… or both for unreasonable money. That’s more this discussion.
    I thought we were talking Boosting a high RPM motor, or high RPMing a boosted motor.
    And yes, people have made their Vipers spin to 9K RPM FWIW.
    We're talking RPM. Notice the Viper was not designed for 9k rpm? Notice you can still make a ton of power? Notice you can boost it? Wow, how about that.

    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Flinchy Click here to enlarge
    And you know ford did some pretty decent engineering getting the GT built right? That’s what you’re saying is a stupid idea, they’re stupid for putting loads of effort into the Ford GT motor.
    The point that they took heads from an NA motor and a block from the truck motors totally flew over your head didn't it? The Ford GT motor is actually a parts bin motor. They didn't create a ground up design for the Ford GT they used 4 valve heads they had sitting around from the Cobra R and a block they were using in trucks. The Coyote 5.0 is a ground up design, the Ford GT engine isn't. You just don't know your stuff man.

    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Flinchy Click here to enlarge
    Yeah of course this is just bench racing, but it’s within the realm of possibility for the most part. Not like we’re chasing 18k RPM formula 1 speeds or something
    You might as well say the N54 can power the space shuttle with how you are reaching.

    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Flinchy Click here to enlarge
    Or, we can have harmless discussions of ‘what if’ without actually being 100% LETS DO THIS RIGHT NOW GUYS. DROP EVERYTHING.
    Who's stopping you from discussing what you want? Discuss all day. Discuss all night. That doesn't mean I can't tell you when you write something absurd.

    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Flinchy Click here to enlarge
    Well yeah, they did… seemingly mostly to please purists like you, so you don’t complain that it’s not a unique highly developed racecar motor..
    I'm sure the BMW engineers have BimmerBoost bookmarked but did the thought ever occur to you they changed the design because it's a better design?

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    Hey sticky... I don't know if it's a better design for aftermarket. It's definitely a better design for its purpose, but that S55 has me concerned with big power nubers. It's not the old iron block S series anymore, and they didn't even bother to give us more displacement to play with. F'ing bmw I tell you.

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by V8Bait Click here to enlarge
    Hey sticky... I don't know if it's a better design for aftermarket. It's definitely a better design for its purpose, but that S55 has me concerned with big power nubers. It's not the old iron block S series anymore, and they didn't even bother to give us more displacement to play with. F'ing bmw I tell you.
    The sarcasm is strong with this one.

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    I don't really know what you guys are talking about. But I think the S55 is the new 2JZ.

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    I'm going to go write some code that automatically bans people who equate any BMW motor to the 2JZ. BRB.

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sticky Click here to enlarge
    Because Octagons are the superior shape and more aesthetically pleasing.
    Fair enough I won’t stop you then haha.
    See how that works?


    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sticky Click here to enlarge
    No I'm a proponent of boosting high volumetric efficiency engines. I'm all about boosting them. They are better boost and performance platforms. That isn't reinventing the wheel or doing something the engine can't do.

    Here's a stock internal Gallardo with twins by the way, wow what a ticking time bomb: http://www.germanboost.com/showthrea...o-dyno-numbers

    You were saying?

    I guess every SC or turbo kit in the world for every NA motor is a ticking time bomb too eh?
    I can respect that and see the thought. It’s just the opposite of conventional logic.. Which is that High strung NA platforms make poor stock boosted platforms when aiming big.
    And depending on the setup/how much power is chasing/how much boost is run, whether head studs installed, gaskets blah blah… yeah, if you strap a blower or turbo onto a stock NA motor and shove boost down it’s throat, yes it’s a ticking timebomb PROBABLY.


    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sticky Click here to enlarge
    Doesn't count? Ok 20k rpm V8 doesn't count everyone move along. The idiots at Cosworth clearly should have used an inline-6 for 20k rpm.
    It’s F1, it’s a totally different discussion. The road engines we’re talking about may as well power tonka trunks for all it matters in comparison.
    I think they should have stuck with the V10 Click here to enlarge
    It’s not like it was the rules and regulations or anything that made them use a V8.. no not at all.

    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sticky Click here to enlarge
    We're talking RPM. Notice the Viper was not designed for 9k rpm? Notice you can still make a ton of power? Notice you can boost it? Wow, how about that.
    EXACTLY MY $#@!ING POINT. Why are you suddenly agreeing with me? Notice many motors aren’t designed for either power or RPM or anything. Yet you can still rasie the redlines and make bulk power.


    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sticky Click here to enlarge
    The point that they took heads from an NA motor and a block from the truck motors totally flew over your head didn't it? The Ford GT motor is actually a parts bin motor. They didn't create a ground up design for the Ford GT they used 4 valve heads they had sitting around from the Cobra R and a block they were using in trucks. The Coyote 5.0 is a ground up design, the Ford GT engine isn't. You just don't know your stuff man.
    I didn’t know we were only talking about low power builds. Just about any motor on the planet can crap out 540whp if you put in a little effort.
    And you’re still wrong
    “The Ford GT version of the 5.4 L is a highly specialized version of the Modular engine. It is an all-aluminum, dry-sump 5.4 L 4-valve DOHC with a Lysholm screw-type supercharger and showcases numerous technological features, such as dual fuel injectors per cylinder and oil squirters for the piston skirts, not found in other Ford Modular engines of the time. The GT 5.4 L benefits from an improved version of the high-flow 2000 Cobra R cylinder head and unique high-lift camshafts. The GT is rated at 550 hp (410 kW) and 500 lbft (678 Nm).[32]

    No special development here boss. Not a unique motor in the least.

    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sticky Click here to enlarge
    You might as well say the N54 can power the space shuttle with how you are reaching.
    No, you’re the only one here that suggested ridiculous things… the ‘realistic’ RPM’s in this thread have been 8k the whole time, with 9k as the dream. Quite a ways off shuttle dreaming. Probably unrealistic? Absolutely you’re right there… Not worth dreaming for? Bah.


    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sticky Click here to enlarge
    Who's stopping you from discussing what you want? Discuss all day. Discuss all night. That doesn't mean I can't tell you when you write something absurd.
    You’re the only one here that’s mentioned anything absurd actually.

    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sticky Click here to enlarge
    I'm sure the BMW engineers have BimmerBoost bookmarked but did the thought ever occur to you they changed the design because it's a better design?
    Not saying it’s not an improvement, but going by you saying engineering stuff is a waste of time.. they should have just left the N55 as it is, assuming like all reports are, the S55 is N55 based.

    And better for what? Not saying they should have kept the N54, but it’s proven to make 700whp… does BMW motorsport plan on making 700whp++++++++++++++++ out of the S55? If so, ok you’re right there lol.
    For the average punter who is going to buy the S55 and putter around the streets, there may as well be little to no difference for the most part lol.
    boop

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sticky Click here to enlarge
    I'm going to go write some code that automatically bans people who equate any BMW motor to the 2JZ. BRB.
    S55 is the new RB30(32?)?
    boop

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    1 out of 1 members liked this post. Yes Reputation No


    Click here to enlarge
    2009 335i coupe back to stock...for now

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by V8Bait Click here to enlarge
    Hey sticky... I don't know if it's a better design for aftermarket. It's definitely a better design for its purpose, but that S55 has me concerned with big power nubers. It's not the old iron block S series anymore, and they didn't even bother to give us more displacement to play with. F'ing bmw I tell you.
    Sarcasm or not.. On paper the iron blocked S54 WOULD be stronger regardless no? And that's all some people care about anyway, improvement or no overall?
    boop

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sticky Click here to enlarge
    I'm going to go write some code that automatically bans people who equate any BMW motor to the 2JZ. BRB.
    Click here to enlarge
    Because racecar.

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sticky Click here to enlarge
    I'm going to go write some code that automatically bans people who equate any BMW motor to the 2JZ. BRB.
    Oh come on...the only think left toyota on the 1200+whp supra's are the body and the general 2jz design, not much left of the 2jz after you have aftermarket internals, bottom end, heads, stroker kit, etc. etc. lets face there is pretty much nothing left of the 2jz in a fully Titan motor or E.Kanoo motor. So why can't the N54 or S55 be the new 2jz?

    I mean, after all, what is the stock inernals 2jz world whp record? Here's the best example I could find, and yes the N54 is a ways away from doing this...

    2009 335i coupe back to stock...for now

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    Much typing
    Many arguil
    So revs
    wow

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    1 out of 1 members liked this post. Yes Reputation No
    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Flinchy Click here to enlarge
    Sarcasm or not.. On paper the iron blocked S54 WOULD be stronger regardless no? And that's all some people care about anyway, improvement or no overall?
    The only improvement I care about is fuel economy! Click here to enlarge
    2009 335i coupe back to stock...for now

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    My post was one part sarcasm and one part reminiscent tears. Spray in cylinder liners, we shall see your true worth.

    Also I just had an eargasm from that video. That's enough internet for me today on that glorious symphony.

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Flinchy Click here to enlarge
    Fair enough I won’t stop you then haha.
    See how that works?
    That's what I've been trying to get you to understand.

    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Flinchy Click here to enlarge
    Which is that High strung NA platforms make poor stock boosted platforms when aiming big.
    Who told you this? No they don't. You want a high strung NA platform as it is going to be the best platform for aiming big. That is why the Gallardos make so much HP.

    Look at what an F430 or 458 Italia do with a little boost. You don't need a whole ton of boost (heat) because the engines are so efficient.

    When you're sitting here talking about raising the N54 redline you're essentially admitting this fact. The way to get more power out of it would be to rev it higher. A high strung NA setup has already been designed for this usually.

    I mean an S54 on stock internals can hit 700 whp because of its strong NA design.

    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Flinchy Click here to enlarge
    It’s F1, it’s a totally different discussion.
    No it isn't. Physics and engineering all apply. Engineers at Cosworth have forgotten more about engines than we will ever know but the fact is vibration becomes a key concern for high revving engines. You want to keep things balances, compact, and light. Sodium filled valves aren't made just to sound cool.

    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Flinchy Click here to enlarge
    Why are you suddenly agreeing with me? Notice many motors aren’t designed for either power or RPM or anything. Yet you can still rasie the redlines and make bulk power.
    I'm not agreeing with you. I'm saying that engine isn't a high revving design just like the N54 isn't a high revving design. I didn't say you can't increase the redline. I'm also pointing out you can boost that motor which is naturally aspirated from the factory yet you said would be a ticking time bomb.

    You do know the new Viper has forged internals specifically for aftermarket forced induction setups right? As in, THE NATURALLY ASPIRATED MOTOR WAS PRODUCED FROM THE FACTORY WITH BOOST IN MIND. How is that possible according to your logic?

    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Flinchy Click here to enlarge
    And you’re still wrong
    “The Ford GT version of the 5.4 L is a highly specialized version of the Modular engine. It is an all-aluminum, dry-sump 5.4 L 4-valve DOHC with a Lysholm screw-type supercharger and showcases numerous technological features, such as dual fuel injectors per cylinder and oil squirters for the piston skirts, not found in other Ford Modular engines of the time. The GT 5.4 L benefits from an improved version of the high-flow 2000 Cobra R cylinder head and unique high-lift camshafts. The GT is rated at 550 hp (410 kW) and 500 lbft (678 Nm).[32]

    No special development here boss. Not a unique motor in the least.
    I'm not wrong at all. Off the top of my head I told you they used the 5.4 liter block they had sitting around and the Cobra R heads. I didn't need Wikipedia. Yeah, they made some additional changes but it's not a ground up design and uses existing modular V8 parts exactly as I stated and exactly as that entry tells you.

    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Flinchy Click here to enlarge
    No, you’re the only one here that suggested ridiculous things… the ‘realistic’ RPM’s in this thread have been 8k the whole time, with 9k as the dream. Quite a ways off shuttle dreaming. Probably unrealistic? Absolutely you’re right there… Not worth dreaming for? Bah.
    Feel free to keep day dreaming if you like.

    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Flinchy Click here to enlarge
    You’re the only one here that’s mentioned anything absurd actually.
    Which is why you're the one who stands corrected by your own admission right?

    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Flinchy Click here to enlarge
    Not saying it’s not an improvement, but going by you saying engineering stuff is a waste of time.. they should have just left the N55 as it is, assuming like all reports are, the S55 is N55 based.
    You have the S55 details posted already. Why are you assuming anything? They didn't leave the N55 as is and redesigned the motor. I'm glad they did or I'd be complaining about it for the next 10 years.

    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Flinchy Click here to enlarge
    And better for what? Not saying they should have kept the N54, but it’s proven to make 700whp… does BMW motorsport plan on making 700whp++++++++++++++++ out of the S55? If so, ok you’re right there lol.
    Why do motors that make far less power than 700 whp have more exotic/stronger materials and more precise engine control? You know it isn't about hitting a peak figure on a dyno right? You know hitting a peak figure isn't sustaining hours of abuse in Motorsport right? You really think a 700 whp N54 is going to make it through the 24 Hours of Le Mans?

    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Flinchy Click here to enlarge
    For the average punter who is going to buy the S55 and putter around the streets, there may as well be little to no difference for the most part lol.
    That doesn't change anything.

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by mjmarovi Click here to enlarge
    Oh come on...the only think left toyota on the 1200+whp supra's are the body and the general 2jz design, not much left of the 2jz after you have aftermarket internals, bottom end, heads, stroker kit, etc. etc. lets face there is pretty much nothing left of the 2jz in a fully Titan motor or E.Kanoo motor. So why can't the N54 or S55 be the new 2jz?

    I mean, after all, what is the stock inernals 2jz world whp record? Here's the best example I could find, and yes the N54 is a ways away from doing this...

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YnS-nT6o4xA
    Why the $#@! are we talking about Supras?

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sticky Click here to enlarge
    Why the $#@! are we talking about Supras?
    To the compare the N54 of course? Duh...wtf tha matta you?
    2009 335i coupe back to stock...for now

    Click here to enlarge

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sticky Click here to enlarge
    That's what I've been trying to get you to understand.
    What? No it’s not, that’s what I’ve been trying to get YOU to understand… you may not entirely agree with it, but If someone wants to do it and it doesn’t hurt you, let it be. That’s just what I did… serious woosh right there.


    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sticky Click here to enlarge
    Who told you this? No they don't. You want a high strung NA platform as it is going to be the best platform for aiming big. That is why the Gallardos make so much HP.

    Look at what an F430 or 458 Italia do with a little boost. You don't need a whole ton of boost (heat) because the engines are so efficient.

    When you're sitting here talking about raising the N54 redline you're essentially admitting this fact. The way to get more power out of it would be to rev it higher. A high strung NA setup has already been designed for this usually.

    I mean an S54 on stock internals can hit 700 whp because of its strong NA design
    It’s just a generally known thing, you don’t normally boost an NA motor USUALLY because of high comp and USUALLY weaker internals etc.
    I thought it was about displacement and revs more than anything, which the exotic cars just conveniently have with their large high cylinder motors..

    How much boost do they need to hit 1000whp?

    and yes the S54 can, but it's taken.. a decade to hit it on stock internals. A DECADE. wait, 12 years? 2001 right?

    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sticky Click here to enlarge
    No it isn't. Physics and engineering all apply. Engineers at Cosworth have forgotten more about engines than we will ever know but the fact is vibration becomes a key concern for high revving engines. You want to keep things balances, compact, and light. Sodium filled valves aren't made just to sound cool.

    Yes, and they didn’t choose the V8 because of some misc property, they chose the V8 because the rules told them they had to run an 8 cylinder of certain specifications.
    Cosworth etc. could make ANY motor configuration rev like that, the V8 was NOT chosen for magical balance.

    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sticky Click here to enlarge
    I'm not agreeing with you. I'm saying that engine isn't a high revving design just like the N54 isn't a high revving design. I didn't say you can't increase the redline. I'm also pointing out you can boost that motor which is naturally aspirated from the factory yet you said would be a ticking time bomb.

    You do know the new Viper has forged internals specifically for aftermarket forced induction setups right? As in, THE NATURALLY ASPIRATED MOTOR WAS PRODUCED FROM THE FACTORY WITH BOOST IN MIND. How is that possible according to your logic?
    You said “We're talking RPM. Notice the Viper was not designed for 9k rpm? Notice you can still make a ton of power? Notice you can boost it? Wow, how about that.

    That’s what I’m saying.. you can do whatever you want with whatever motor. Make the viper hit 9k? go nuts.

    And it WILL be a ticking time bomb… you get LS motors for example and chuck a couple of turbos, and you want 700whp+ off the stock internals, you’re going to have a bad time.
    In fact, the viper is a $#@! example.. it’s a 8L V10. Getting 1000whp is nothing for that. Even 640whp stock NA is a bit low sounding for what it COULD do… you’re just cherrypicking.

    Besides, having forged internals doesn’t mean they thought of boost to start with.. it means they wanted lighter stronger internals?? If they wanted boost straight up, it probably wouldn’t be 10.2:1 compressoin either.


    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sticky Click here to enlarge
    I'm not wrong at all. Off the top of my head I told you they used the 5.4 liter block they had sitting around and the Cobra R heads. I didn't need Wikipedia. Yeah, they made some additional changes but it's not a ground up design and uses existing modular V8 parts exactly as I stated and exactly as that entry tells you.
    But.. did you even read what I posted? Where they made an aluminium block, not an existing one.. and “ improved version of the high-flow 2000 Cobra R cylinder head and unique high-lift camshafts. “
    “Improved Version”
    Let alone “dry sump” and “dual injectors” and “oil squirters”
    Seriously, you’re wrong on this point and you keep persisting in it? Far out. At least i can admit when i'm wrong.

    You may as well say the S54 sucks because it’s not a ground up redesign, it’s a modified cast iron M54. Do you hate the S65 because all it is is a cut down S85? how lazy they are making such a terrible motor based off an existing design.

    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sticky Click here to enlarge
    Feel free to keep day dreaming if you like.
    ok J at least I’m not a Grinch lol


    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sticky Click here to enlarge
    Which is why you're the one who stands corrected by your own admission right?
    At least I can admit when I’m wrong unlike you?


    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sticky Click here to enlarge
    You have the S55 details posted already. Why are you assuming anything? They didn't leave the N55 as is and redesigned the motor. I'm glad they did or I'd be complaining about it for the next 10 years.
    Don’t you hate aluminium blocks?

    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sticky Click here to enlarge
    Why do motors that make far less power than 700 whp have more exotic/stronger materials and more precise engine control? You know it isn't about hitting a peak figure on a dyno right? You know hitting a peak figure isn't sustaining hours of abuse in Motorsport right? You really think a 700 whp N54 is going to make it through the 24 Hours of Le Mans?
    I don’t know, it might? Can’t be sure until someone enters an enturance race with one lol. Well.. besides the N54’s that have already, and blow stock turbos left right and center.

    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sticky Click here to enlarge
    That doesn't change anything.
    Wtf.
    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sticky Click here to enlarge
    That's what I've been trying to get you to understand.
    What? No it’s not, that’s what I’ve been trying to get YOU to understand… you may not entirely agree with it, but If someone wants to do it and it doesn’t hurt you, let it be. That’s just what I did… serious woosh right there.


    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sticky Click here to enlarge
    Who told you this? No they don't. You want a high strung NA platform as it is going to be the best platform for aiming big. That is why the Gallardos make so much HP.

    Look at what an F430 or 458 Italia do with a little boost. You don't need a whole ton of boost (heat) because the engines are so efficient.

    When you're sitting here talking about raising the N54 redline you're essentially admitting this fact. The way to get more power out of it would be to rev it higher. A high strung NA setup has already been designed for this usually.
    I mean an S54 on stock internals can hit 700 whp because of its strong NA design
    It’s just a generally known thing, you don’t normally boost an NA motor because of high comp and USUALLY weaker internals etc.
    I thought it was about displacement and revs more than anything, which the exotic cars just conveniently have with their large high cylinder motors..

    How much boost do they need to hit 1000whp?

    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sticky Click here to enlarge
    No it isn't. Physics and engineering all apply. Engineers at Cosworth have forgotten more about engines than we will ever know but the fact is vibration becomes a key concern for high revving engines. You want to keep things balances, compact, and light. Sodium filled valves aren't made just to sound cool.

    Yes, and they didn’t choose the V8 because of some misc property, they chose the V8 because the rules told them they had to run an 8 cylinder of certain specifications.
    Cosworth etc. could make ANY motor configuration rev like that, the V8 was NOT chosen for magical balance.

    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sticky Click here to enlarge
    I'm not agreeing with you. I'm saying that engine isn't a high revving design just like the N54 isn't a high revving design. I didn't say you can't increase the redline. I'm also pointing out you can boost that motor which is naturally aspirated from the factory yet you said would be a ticking time bomb.

    You do know the new Viper has forged internals specifically for aftermarket forced induction setups right? As in, THE NATURALLY ASPIRATED MOTOR WAS PRODUCED FROM THE FACTORY WITH BOOST IN MIND. How is that possible according to your logic?
    You said “We're talking RPM. Notice the Viper was not designed for 9k rpm? Notice you can still make a ton of power? Notice you can boost it? Wow, how about that.

    That’s what I’m saying.. you can do whatever you want with whatever motor. Make the viper hit 9k? go nuts.

    And it WILL be a ticking time bomb… you get LS motors for example and chuck a couple of turbos, and you want 700whp+ off the stock internals, you’re going to have a bad time.
    In fact, the viper is a $#@! example.. it’s a 8L V10. Getting 1000whp is nothing for that. Even 640whp stock NA is a bit low sounding for what it COULD do… you’re just cherrypicking.

    Besides, having forged internals doesn’t mean they thought of boost to start with.. it means they wanted lighter stronger internals?? If they wanted boost straight up, it probably wouldn’t be 10.2:1 compressoin either.


    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sticky Click here to enlarge
    I'm not wrong at all. Off the top of my head I told you they used the 5.4 liter block they had sitting around and the Cobra R heads. I didn't need Wikipedia. Yeah, they made some additional changes but it's not a ground up design and uses existing modular V8 parts exactly as I stated and exactly as that entry tells you.
    But.. did you even read what I posted? Where they made an aluminium block, not an existing one.. and “ improved version of the high-flow 2000 Cobra R cylinder head and unique high-lift camshafts. “
    “Improved Version”
    Let alone “dry sump” and “dual injectors” and “oil squirters”
    Seriously, you’re wrong on this point and you keep persisting in it? Far out. At least i can admit when I am.

    You may as well say the S54 sucks because it’s not a ground up redesign, it’s a modified cast iron M54 with an engineered valvetrain and head work.

    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sticky Click here to enlarge
    Feel free to keep day dreaming if you like.
    ok Click here to enlarge at least I’m not a Grinch lol


    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sticky Click here to enlarge
    Which is why you're the one who stands corrected by your own admission right?
    At least I can admit when I’m wrong unlike you?


    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sticky Click here to enlarge
    You have the S55 details posted already. Why are you assuming anything? They didn't leave the N55 as is and redesigned the motor. I'm glad they did or I'd be complaining about it for the next 10 years.
    Don’t you hate aluminium blocks?

    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sticky Click here to enlarge
    Why do motors that make far less power than 700 whp have more exotic/stronger materials and more precise engine control? You know it isn't about hitting a peak figure on a dyno right? You know hitting a peak figure isn't sustaining hours of abuse in Motorsport right? You really think a 700 whp N54 is going to make it through the 24 Hours of Le Mans?
    Again, don't you hate aluminium? stronger? ok.

    I don’t know, it might? Can’t be sure until someone enters an endurance race with one lol. Well.. besides the N54’s that have already, and blow stock turbos left right and center. Heck, pretty sure there's a lot of people abusing them all the time on the track at 450-500whp. proof enough?

    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sticky Click here to enlarge
    That doesn't change anything.
    Wtf.
    Last edited by Flinchy; 01-14-2014 at 12:38 AM.
    boop

  24. #74
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Flinchy Click here to enlarge
    What? No it’s not, that’s what I’ve been trying to get YOU to understand… you may not entirely agree with it, but If someone wants to do it and it doesn’t hurt you, let it be. That’s just what I did… serious woosh right there.
    I think you missed the hyperbole of just because something may be possible on paper doesn't mean it makes any logical sense to do or is in the best interest of the architecture. Serious whoosh is right.

    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Flinchy Click here to enlarge
    It’s just a generally known thing, you don’t normally boost an NA motor USUALLY because of high comp and USUALLY weaker internals etc.
    Um, it's a generally known thing that when a motor is build for sutained high revs it requires STRONGER parts. Why do you think that S2000 hit 700 whp? Why do you think the high compression S54 hits over 700 whp? Why do you think the Gallardo can practically approach 1000 whp on stock internals?

    You know people specifically build high compression motors for track duty right? Because you need less boost for more power (less heat) and get quicker spool right? You know these things are strengths right? You know Weistec doesn't change the compression ratio for their built motor 63 AMG's right? OMG how is that possible?

    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Flinchy Click here to enlarge
    and yes the S54 can, but it's taken.. a decade to hit it on stock internals. A DECADE. wait, 12 years? 2001 right?
    WTF are you talking about? Oh! You didn't realize the difference between doing it on the stock DME which BMW makes a $#@! (you know the forced induction from the factory F30 isn't being flash tuned yet right?) and doing it with a supplemental ECU. Once again, more reading is necessary.

    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Flinchy Click here to enlarge
    Yes, and they didn’t choose the V8 because of some misc property, they chose the V8 because the rules told them they had to run an 8 cylinder of certain specifications.
    Cosworth etc. could make ANY motor configuration rev like that, the V8 was NOT chosen for magical balance.
    So when they build race motors designed for high revs in other racing classes would you mind explaining why they aren't using inline-6's? You really think you aren't going to get a more compact motor to rev higher? Didn't BMW switching from the I6 to the V8 for the roadcourse already tell you this? How large are your pistons going to be in an i6 attempting to match the displacement of a V8? How aggressive is your stroke going to be? At what point will your crank length come into play? What about your cam length? OMGWTFBBQ you're arguing against a V8 revving to 20k. Can you find me a higher revving I6?

    The highest revving motor EVER RECORDED in Formula 1 is the Cosworth V8. But apparently they never heard of the N54.

    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Flinchy Click here to enlarge
    And it WILL be a ticking time bomb… you get LS motors for example and chuck a couple of turbos, and you want 700whp+ off the stock internals, you’re going to have a bad time.
    In fact, the viper is a $#@! example.. it’s a 8L V10. Getting 1000whp is nothing for that. Even 640whp stock NA is a bit low sounding for what it COULD do… you’re just cherrypicking.

    Besides, having forged internals doesn’t mean they thought of boost to start with.. it means they wanted lighter stronger internals?? If they wanted boost straight up, it probably wouldn’t be 10.2:1 compressoin either.
    You are so far out of league and this is so one sided it's comical: http://www.caranddriver.com/features...-engine-page-3

    You’re back to forged pistons?

    Winkles: The cast pistons weren’t quite robust enough if an owner added a supercharger or a turbo or if he was pumping nitrous. Those pistons weren’t indestruct*ible. Se we heard the owners’ cries, and we’re back to forged Mahles. Now we can protect the tuners from their own mistakes.

    Naturally aspirated motor MADE WITH BOTH IN MIND. The SRT engineers SPECIFICALLY chose forged Mahle pistons with a supercharger, turbo, or nitrous in mind. Here is a perfect example of how a motor made for NA abuse is often built stronger than one that relies on boost for a crutch. N54 cast parts anyone?

    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Flinchy Click here to enlarge
    But.. did you even read what I posted? Where they made an aluminium block, not an existing one.. and “ improved version of the high-flow 2000 Cobra R cylinder head and unique high-lift camshafts. “
    “Improved Version”
    Let alone “dry sump” and “dual injectors” and “oil squirters”
    Seriously, you’re wrong on this point and you keep persisting in it? Far out. At least i can admit when i'm wrong.

    You may as well say the S54 sucks because it’s not a ground up redesign, it’s a modified cast iron M54. Do you hate the S65 because all it is is a cut down S85? how lazy they are making such a terrible motor based off an existing design.
    It's the Modular V8. It uses Cobra R heads with 4 valves. The aluminum engine block was already available in the Ford Racing parts catalog. You could get it wet sump, dry sump, whatever. Here bro, go get one: http://www.summitracing.com/search/p...-engine-blocks It's a mashup of parts they had from the Modular V8 family exactly as I told you. It's not a unique ground up design it's the same basic motor family they were always using with some changes. The point that flew over your head being that they took heads from a NATURALLY ASPIRATED car. How about that?

    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Flinchy Click here to enlarge
    At least I can admit when I’m wrong unlike you?
    I can't help it if you don't know what you're talking about.

    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Flinchy Click here to enlarge
    Don’t you hate aluminium blocks?
    No. I point out they are weaker than iron blocks which they are. Aluminum blocks often needs liners to improve their strength. Like the S2000 received because it was a high revving motor. How cool is it that you essentially already get a sleeved block? OMG and with a naturally aspirated motor? Holy crap.

    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Flinchy Click here to enlarge
    I don’t know, it might? Can’t be sure until someone enters an enturance race with one lol. Well.. besides the N54’s that have already, and blow stock turbos left right and center.
    You seriously think a 700 whp N54 is going to last a 24 Hour endurance race? Well you also think 9000 rpm is easy so we might as well just keep insane speculation going. I can tell you the S65 has done it though.

    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Flinchy Click here to enlarge
    It’s just a generally known thing, you don’t normally boost an NA motor because of high comp and USUALLY weaker internals etc.
    I think you started repeating yourself but high revs create a ton of stress. This is why you see higher quality components in high strung NA motors and why they make so much power on stock internals with minimal boost.

    Do you really think revving to 9k rpm and with insane piston speeds is not stressful on the motor? Did you know the S54 was approaching F1 piston speeds at the time? Do you think maybe that is why BMW gave it an iron block while the 330i received an aluminum block in the M54?

    I can not even stress enough how wrong you are. The excerpt from the SRT engineers should be enough right there to prove the point as if the S2000, S54, and Gallardo V10 weren't.

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    I was thinking a ‘consolidated Flinchy and Sticky debate’ thread personally, but this works hahahaha

    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sticky Click here to enlarge
    I think you missed the hyperbole of just because something may be possible on paper doesn't mean it makes any logical sense to do or is in the best interest of the architecture. Serious whoosh is right.
    Even more woosh, why the hell did you build your S65/M3 if this is your opinion? That’s just Hypocritical.


    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sticky Click here to enlarge
    Um, it's a generally known thing that when a motor is build for sutained high revs it requires STRONGER parts. Why do you think that S2000 hit 700 whp? Why do you think the high compression S54 hits over 700 whp? Why do you think the Gallardo can practically approach 1000 whp on stock internals?

    You know people specifically build high compression motors for track duty right? Because you need less boost for more power (less heat) and get quicker spool right? You know these things are strengths right? You know Weistec doesn't change the compression ratio for their built motor 63 AMG's right? OMG how is that possible?
    That makes sense. And the Gallardo can approach 1000whp on stock internals because it’s a 5/5.2L V10 more than anything.. and obviously not built cast.. would be a pretty disgusting exotic supercar if you got cast internals lol?
    People don’t necessarily build high compression boosted motors as a starting point (talking building, not just starting with one), most of the long term serious builds i’ve seen is they’ve gotten the power (or whatever) they want then raise the compression as far as they can. But yes, to a point raising compression is a good thing for boosted motors as long as other goals and safety is met.
    As for the Weistec – that’s ridiculously impressive stuff 11.3:1 and 12psi+? nuts.
    I’m not saying it’s not possible, clearly it is, i’m just saying it’s not NORMAL.


    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sticky Click here to enlarge
    WTF are you talking about? Oh! You didn't realize the difference between doing it on the stock DME which BMW makes a $#@! (you know the forced induction from the factory F30 isn't being flash tuned yet right?) and doing it with a supplemental ECU. Once again, more reading is necessary.
    No, i do realize that, i’m just hoping you did... you’re saying basically take the easier option, and suggesting something that took TWELVE YEARS to achieve. You’re contradicting yourself with half the things you’re saying ffs.
    More reading necessary for me? No... Reading and comprehension for you? Likely.

    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sticky Click here to enlarge
    So when they build race motors designed for high revs in other racing classes would you mind explaining why they aren't using inline-6's? You really think you aren't going to get a more compact motor to rev higher? Didn't BMW switching from the I6 to the V8 for the roadcourse already tell you this? How large are your pistons going to be in an i6 attempting to match the displacement of a V8? How aggressive is your stroke going to be? At what point will your crank length come into play? What about your cam length? OMGWTFBBQ you're arguing against a V8 revving to 20k. Can you find me a higher revving I6?

    The highest revving motor EVER RECORDED in Formula 1 is the Cosworth V8. But apparently they never heard of the N54.
    Some classes do allow/use inline 6’s? $#@!, i know of some RB’s hitting 14k in race trim. Billet eccentric shaft 13b’s (or xxb’s) hitting 14k++.. purely because someone wanted to at some stage and worked out how, even though the stock one would $#@! itself.
    You know that V8’s require more complex balance bars and stuff, which just means even MORE precision.. as you still have to have everything else perfectly balanced, just like with the inline 6. How convenient that F1 teams have the near limitless budget and need to do this?

    How don’t you realize that the switch to V8 was more than likely both packaging and ease of increasing power N/A..? Use your logic.

    As for higher revving I6?.. hm lets go google.. 5cyl race 125 bikes hitting 21k...
    Briefly found something on a 22k RPm 6cyl, but i think it’s also small
    And another mention for something old and raced at 20k+.

    And we’re talking people/teams with a fraction of a fraction of the budget time and dedication/drive of an F1 team.

    This is a stupid discussion, if they’d been forced to develop on V10’s for longer, they’d have gotten them over 20k RPM as well..


    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sticky Click here to enlarge
    You are so far out of league and this is so one sided it's comical: http://www.caranddriver.com/features...-engine-page-3

    You’re back to forged pistons?

    Winkles: The cast pistons weren’t quite robust enough if an owner added a supercharger or a turbo or if he was pumping nitrous. Those pistons weren’t indestruct*ible. Se we heard the owners’ cries, and we’re back to forged Mahles. Now we can protect the tuners from their own mistakes.

    Naturally aspirated motor MADE WITH BOTH IN MIND. The SRT engineers SPECIFICALLY chose forged Mahle pistons with a supercharger, turbo, or nitrous in mind. Here is a perfect example of how a motor made for NA abuse is often built stronger than one that relies on boost for a crutch. N54 cast parts anyone?
    Again my mistake, couldn’t find that article when searching anything to do with teh viper being forged and a reason for it. We’re also talking about a $120k race built car here.


    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sticky Click here to enlarge
    It's the Modular V8. It uses Cobra R heads with 4 valves. The aluminum engine block was already available in the Ford Racing parts catalog. You could get it wet sump, dry sump, whatever. Here bro, go get one: http://www.summitracing.com/search/p...-engine-blocks It's a mashup of parts they had from the Modular V8 family exactly as I told you. It's not a unique ground up design it's the same basic motor family they were always using with some changes. The point that flew over your head being that they took heads from a NATURALLY ASPIRATED car. How about that?
    And? What of it being from the same family, it used a custom block and all sorts of other features that weren’t on any other modular V8 at the time, it was specially improved end of story.

    I hope you realise that it’s now almost a decade later, and you can now order MANY more parts developed since 2004, and the development of the GT. The aluminium block wasn't available pre 2004 according to every source i can find.. oh what's that? not until it was produced for the GT? must be a coincidence.

    bugger it. have a quote

    >The mid-mounted 5.4 L ModularV8 engine is all-aluminum with a Lysholm twin screw-type supercharger. It features a forged rotating assembly housed in an aluminum block designed specifically for the GT program.

    'designed specifically for the GT program' must mean already available parts bin stuff right?


    Also, they took heads from a naturally aspirated car and $#@!ing modified them to suit the new purpose. Fancy that.


    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sticky Click here to enlarge
    I can't help it if you don't know what you're talking about.
    I wish i could help you though...


    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sticky Click here to enlarge
    No. I point out they are weaker than iron blocks which they are. Aluminum blocks often needs liners to improve their strength. Like the S2000 received because it was a high revving motor. How cool is it that you essentially already get a sleeved block? OMG and with a naturally aspirated motor? Holy crap.
    It is a pretty damn cool motor. Until today i had no idea it was entirely floating open deck.. the whole 600-700whp thing just took on a whole new tier of awesome. Not to mention FRM sleeves rather than iron. Fancy stuff.

    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sticky Click here to enlarge
    You seriously think a 700 whp N54 is going to last a 24 Hour endurance race? Well you also think 9000 rpm is easy so we might as well just keep insane speculation going. I can tell you the S65 has done it though.
    Why do you think it wouldn’t if built properly? You have zero basis to think otherwise other than your dislike of the motor and propensity to argue.

    I don’t believe anyone has had the thought that 9000rpm would be easy on the N54.. unless you’ve been having this discussion with other people?


    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sticky Click here to enlarge
    I think you started repeating yourself but high revs create a ton of stress. This is why you see higher quality components in high strung NA motors and why they make so much power on stock internals with minimal boost.

    Do you really think revving to 9k rpm and with insane piston speeds is not stressful on the motor? Did you know the S54 was approaching F1 piston speeds at the time? Do you think maybe that is why BMW gave it an iron block while the 330i received an aluminum block in the M54?

    I can not even stress enough how wrong you are. The excerpt from the SRT engineers should be enough right there to prove the point as if the S2000, S54, and Gallardo V10 weren't.
    Why would i think it’s not stressful?
    You realize i’m not saying ‘DO IT ON STOCK PARTS’... at this point, again, you’re arguing for the sake of it and ignoring at least half of what i’m saying here.
    Anyway, no reason the aluminium block can’t hit those speeds and live easily.. heck lets get back to the S2k... it hit even higher speeds with a way (theoretically) weaker block, being fully floating open deck and all... huh.
    boop

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