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  1. #26
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by LZH Click here to enlarge
    No, I meant E63. A6 competes with the E550.
    That's just not correct in how they are positioned. See my explanation above.

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sticky Click here to enlarge
    That's just not correct in how they are positioned. See my explanation above.
    If that is incorrect then what would be the correct model correlation between Audi and Mercedes ? The Mercedes E line doesn't compete with the Audi 8's or the 4's - so if they don't compete with the 6's then what do they compete with ? And please don't tell me there is no competition cause I've driven the E63 and S6 back to back and I can tell you that the S6 is a much better car in every regard for less money.

  3. #28
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by LZH Click here to enlarge
    If that is incorrect then what would be the correct model correlation between Audi and Mercedes ? The Mercedes E line doesn't compete with the Audi 8's or the 4's - so if they don't compete with the 6's then what do they compete with ? And please don't tell me there is no competition cause I've driven the E63 and S6 back to back and I can tell you that the S6 is a much better car in every regard for less money.
    I'm not saying the car doesn't compare I'm stating how the models are slotted up.

    M6 - CLS63 - RS7
    650i - CLS550 - S7
    640i - CLS350 - A6

    The RS7 and the E63 are the most logical competitors as the AMG and RS models go head to head. There is no RS6 in the United States but there is in the ROW and that is clearly the E63 competitor. The S6/S7 is the middle range offering as is the E550/CLS550.

    It's quite clear really.

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  4. #29
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sticky Click here to enlarge
    I'm not saying the car doesn't compare I'm stating how the models are slotted up.

    M6 - CLS63 - RS7
    650i - CLS550 - S7
    640i - CLS350 - A6

    The RS7 and the E63 are the most logical competitors as the AMG and RS models go head to head. There is no RS6 in the United States but there is in the ROW and that is clearly the E63 competitor. The S6/S7 is the middle range offering as is the E550/CLS550.

    It's quite clear really.
    I don't think it's clear at all. The RS cars trounce the regular AMG models and your forgetting about the Black Series cars that are really the direct competition to the RS models. Only difference is that Audi smartly makes more RS versions than AMG does black series'.

  5. #30
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by LZH Click here to enlarge
    The RS cars trounce the regular AMG models
    How so?

    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by LZH Click here to enlarge
    nd your forgetting about the Black Series cars that are really the direct competition to the RS models.
    No, the black series is its own thing entirely. The Black Series cars are track focused, stripped, lightweight performance models. It's like an M3 GTS or CSL model.

    The set up is quite clear to me. I don't see how the S6 and E63 are competitors but the RS7 and CLS63 aren't. It's actually a very definitive hierarchy by each manufacturer clearly positioning themselves against their rivals.

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  6. #31
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    0 out of 1 members liked this post. Yes Reputation No
    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sticky Click here to enlarge

    I think I'm quite aware of what is what.
    Apparently not. Click here to enlarge

  7. #32
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    Here Sticky, let this explain it to you, so you can get it right.

    http://www.caranddriver.com/comparis...audi-s6-page-4

    If the next C63 is a dime more than the current car, and it doesn't offer both a V8 TT and a DCT, I'll just buy the S6 instead.

  8. #33
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by TT C6 Click here to enlarge
    Here Sticky, let this explain it to you, so you can get it right.

    http://www.caranddriver.com/comparis...audi-s6-page-4

    If the next C63 is a dime more than the current car, and it doesn't offer both a V8 TT and a DCT, I'll just buy the S6 instead.
    I have it right: 'The S6 is 98-hp less murderous than the next-most-powerful contender, the E63.'

    They used the S6 in that comparison because the RS6/RS7 was not available yet: "The as-yet-unseen RS6 would be a better challenger to the steroidal M5, but it’s not out yet and may never come to the States. So, we figured, why not give the S6 a chance in the lion’s den. After all, this could be the hottest size-6 Audi we ever get."

    Thanks for making my point for me. You should read your own links.

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  9. #34
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by TT C6 Click here to enlarge
    If the next C63 is a dime more than the current car, and it doesn't offer both a V8 TT and a DCT, I'll just buy the S6 instead.
    Go buy the S6 already.

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sticky Click here to enlarge
    I have it right: 'The S6 is 98-hp less murderous than the next-most-powerful contender, the E63.'

    They used the S6 in that comparison because the RS6/RS7 was not available yet: "The as-yet-unseen RS6 would be a better challenger to the steroidal M5, but it’s not out yet and may never come to the States. So, we figured, why not give the S6 a chance in the lion’s den. After all, this could be the hottest size-6 Audi we ever get."

    Thanks for making my point for me. You should read your own links.

    Are you illiterate?
    The S6 won the comparison in that article.
    Stock Vs Stock, the S6 is a competitor, or even superior, to the 2013 E63. Especially when you factor in the DCT.

    So, YES, the S6 is a direct competitor to the E63.
    Last edited by TT C6; 01-19-2014 at 12:19 AM.

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by BlackJetE90OC Click here to enlarge
    Go buy the S6 already.
    Nah. I'll be smart and wait for the C63 to make a decision.
    But, thanks for you suggestion. Click here to enlarge

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by TT C6 Click here to enlarge
    Are you illiterate?
    The S6 won the comparison in that article.
    Stock Vs Stock, the S6 is a competitor, or even superior, to the 2013 E63. Especially when you factor in the DCT.

    So, YES, the S6 is a direct competitor to the E63.
    Who the f*ck are you talking to? Sticky?

  13. #38
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by BlackJetE90OC Click here to enlarge
    Who the f*ck are you talking to? Sticky?
    Wrong quoted. Edited.

  14. #39
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by TT C6 Click here to enlarge
    Are you illiterate?
    The S6 won the comparison in that article.
    Stock Vs Stock, the S6 is a competitor, or even superior, to the 2013 E63. Especially when you factor in the DCT.

    So, YES, the S6 is a direct competitor to the E63.
    The S6 could be compared to a Ferrari 458 too in an article and win, so what? Articles in magazines decide what competes with what now?

    THEY USED THE S6 BECAUSE THE RS6/RS7 WERE NOT AVAILABLE YET. Look at the model year of the E63 referenced. The article mentions the rear wheel drive traction of the E63. Um, it's 2014 now and the E63 isn't rear wheel drive.

    The S6/S7 are not the E63/CLS63 competitors from Audi. The RS6/RS7 clearly are. There is no debate, sorry.

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sticky Click here to enlarge
    The S6 could be compared to a Ferrari 458 too in an article and win, so what? Articles in magazines decide what competes with what now?

    THEY USED THE S6 BECAUSE THE RS6/RS7 WERE NOT AVAILABLE YET. Look at the model year of the E63 referenced. The article mentions the rear wheel drive traction of the E63. Um, it's 2014 now and the E63 isn't rear wheel drive.

    The S6/S7 is not the E63/CLS63 competitor from Audi. The RS6/RS7 clearly are. There is no debate, sorry.
    Do you think I'm not aware of all these facts ???
    Why is it so hard for you to grasp the fact that if the S6 is considered the better buy over the E63 by Car and Driver, and many others, then the S6 actually IS a competitor to the E63 ???

    I would never buy the RS7 because it's deletes the DCT for a slushbox, it's heavier than the S6, the premium charged for basically the same car is ridiculous, and the rear headroom is sacrificed for "show".
    So, NO, I do not consider the RS7 a good buy, or a direct competitor to the E63.

  16. #41
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by TT C6 Click here to enlarge
    Do you think I'm not aware of all these facts ???
    Then I don't know why you are quoting outdated articles or seeing it for yourself.

    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by TT C6 Click here to enlarge
    Why is it so hard for you to grasp the fact that if the S6 is considered the better buy over the E63 by Car and Driver, and many others, that the S6 actually IS a competitor to the E63.
    The Kia Rio could be considered better than the E63 by Car and Driver and it wouldn't change anything. It certainly would not change that the RS6/RS7 are the models Audi positions against the E63/CLS63 and the M5/M6.

    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by TT C6 Click here to enlarge
    I would never buy the RS7 because it's deletes the DCT for a slushbox, it's heavier than the S6, the premium charged for basically the same car is ridiculous, and the rear headroom is sacrificed for "show".
    I'm not asking you to buy one.

    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by TT C6 Click here to enlarge
    So, NO, I do not consider the RS7 a good buy, or a direct competitor to the E63.
    Ok. But it is the direct competitor.

    P.S. Car and Driver did a comparison featuring the RS6 sedan when it was offered. Go ahead and use Google to see what from Mercedes and BMW they put it up against. I hope your head doesn't explode.

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  17. #42
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sticky Click here to enlarge
    I have it right: 'The S6 is 98-hp less murderous than the next-most-powerful contender, the E63.'

    They used the S6 in that comparison because the RS6/RS7 was not available yet: "The as-yet-unseen RS6 would be a better challenger to the steroidal M5, but it’s not out yet and may never come to the States. So, we figured, why not give the S6 a chance in the lion’s den. After all, this could be the hottest size-6 Audi we ever get."

    Thanks for making my point for me. You should read your own links.
    That 98 hp difference is made up in spades by the brilliant dct in the S6 not to mention how much more efficient it is and the fact that it has a torque vectoring sports differential out back. You can say what you want about which models are competition for one another but the fact is the S6 is a better car for less. Audi obviously priced it that way to pull Amg buyers. And you are forgetting about the regular old A6 in your comparisons. If the Audi RS models are a direct competitor for the amg's, and the S6 competes with the E550, then what's the competition for the A6??
    if you think that is accurate then go drive an E550 and an S6 back to back and then come back and tell me which one you would rather have. Because the E550 is a fat pig luxury cruiser and the S6 will trounce it in every way...starting with the gorgeous diamond stitched seats and ending with the superior more driver focused chassis. Comparing the two is nothing short of ignorant.

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by LZH Click here to enlarge
    That 98 hp difference is made up in spades by the brilliant dct in the S6 not to mention how much more efficient it is and the fact that it has a torque vectoring sports differential out back. You can say what you want about which models are competition for one another but the fact is the S6 is a better car for less.
    I not debating the quality of the S6. I'm specifically discussing what is competition for what. The S6 may be great, but it isn't the E63 AMG rival from Audi.

    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by LZH Click here to enlarge
    If the Audi RS models are a direct competitor for the amg's, and the S6 competes with the E550, then what's the competition for the A6??
    I specified that above already.

    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by LZH Click here to enlarge
    if you think that is accurate then go drive an E550 and an S6 back to back and then come back and tell me which one you would rather have.
    Once again I have no doubt the S6 is a great car but I'm not sure what that has to do with anything. The M3 sedan drives better than an S600. Does that make them rivals in the same class somehow?

    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by LZH Click here to enlarge
    Because the E550 is a fat pig luxury cruiser and the S6 will trounce it in every way...starting with the gorgeous diamond stitched seats and ending with the superior more driver focused chassis. Comparing the two is nothing short of ignorant.
    Ok I'm glad we established we have S6 fans. I still don't see how this changes my point or how it makes the S6 the 63 AMG competitor.

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sticky Click here to enlarge
    Ok I'm glad we established we have S6 fans. I still don't see how this changes my point or how it makes the S6 the 63 AMG competitor.
    We're not "fans" of anything. We recognize the car for what it is......a E63 competitor with a better transmission for $70k.
    End of story.

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by TT C6 Click here to enlarge
    We're not "fans" of anything. We recognize the car for what it is......a E63 competitor with a better transmission for $70k.
    End of story.
    It's not the E63 competitor. Reference the article you linked me to me if you need to.

    End of story.

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    This is really cut and dry don't understand how people don't get this. Had an argument with a guy yesterday that said his s5 was in the same class and better than the m3 according to him because he supposedly beat one of the highway ... I tried to beat into his head that the s5 is in the same class as a 335i Msport and that's why the rs5 was made to compete with the m3 then he told me how much better the s5 was than the rs5 ... Guess he should be the CEO of vw he really knows his stuff ....

    the s6 does not compete with the e63 period you can't compare a tuned s6 to a stock e63 because we know if you tune the e63 you'll see over 130mph trap speeds and it would kill the Audi. The RS line competes with AMG and M period no matter what your opinion of the better value. Audi will release a RS Plus package to compete with the AMG PP Package and BMW M Competition Package .. See the correlation here???

    Black series is on another level and what makes AMG the leader for true car nuts. As sticky stated they are track focused cars with drivability second. The only thing BMW has is the m3 gts which was very limited in numbers while AMG has had multiple cars with a halo sls black series that you can only compare to an Audi r8 v10 plus.

  22. #47
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by ezec63 Click here to enlarge
    This is really cut and dry don't understand how people don't get this. Had an argument with a guy yesterday that said his s5 was in the same class and better than the m3 according to him because he supposedly beat one of the highway ... I tried to beat into his head that the s5 is in the same class as a 335i Msport and that's why the rs5 was made to compete with the m3 then he told me how much better the s5 was than the rs5 ... Guess he should be the CEO of vw he really knows his stuff ....

    the s6 does not compete with the e63 period you can't compare a tuned s6 to a stock e63 because we know if you tune the e63 you'll see over 130mph trap speeds and it would kill the Audi. The RS line competes with AMG and M period no matter what your opinion of the better value. Audi will release a RS Plus package to compete with the AMG PP Package and BMW M Competition Package .. See the correlation here???

    Black series is on another level and what makes AMG the leader for true car nuts. As sticky stated they are track focused cars with drivability second. The only thing BMW has is the m3 gts which was very limited in numbers while AMG has had multiple cars with a halo sls black series that you can only compare to an Audi r8 v10 plus.
    Makes perfect logical sense to me.

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by ezec63 Click here to enlarge
    This is really cut and dry don't understand how people don't get this. Had an argument with a guy yesterday that said his s5 was in the same class and better than the m3 according to him because he supposedly beat one of the highway ... I tried to beat into his head that the s5 is in the same class as a 335i Msport and that's why the rs5 was made to compete with the m3 then he told me how much better the s5 was than the rs5 ... Guess he should be the CEO of vw he really knows his stuff ....

    the s6 does not compete with the e63 period you can't compare a tuned s6 to a stock e63 because we know if you tune the e63 you'll see over 130mph trap speeds and it would kill the Audi. The RS line competes with AMG and M period no matter what your opinion of the better value. Audi will release a RS Plus package to compete with the AMG PP Package and BMW M Competition Package .. See the correlation here???

    Black series is on another level and what makes AMG the leader for true car nuts. As sticky stated they are track focused cars with drivability second. The only thing BMW has is the m3 gts which was very limited in numbers while AMG has had multiple cars with a halo sls black series that you can only compare to an Audi r8 v10 plus.

    No matter how much you and Sticky flap your jaws, it doesn't change the fact that the S6 competes with the E63, stock vs stock.
    In addition, many feel that the S6's DCT, lower curb weight, and MSRP make it MORE desirable than the E63.

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by TT C6 Click here to enlarge
    No matter how much you and Sticky flap your jaws, it doesn't change the fact that the S6 competes with the E63, stock vs stock.
    That does not make it Audi's competitor to the E63. The A6 competes with the E63 then too. You can say anything competes with it by your definition.

    I like how you are saying stock for stock now after saying tuned.

    We honestly understand the S6 is a great car and can compete with other cars. It's not the E63 competitor though.

    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by TT C6 Click here to enlarge
    In addition, many feel that the S6's DCT, lower curb weight, and MSRP make it MORE desirable than the E63.
    I find the Aventador's styling and V12 make it more desirable than the E63 AMG.

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by TT C6 Click here to enlarge
    No matter how much you and Sticky flap your jaws, it doesn't change the fact that the S6 competes with the E63, stock vs stock.
    In addition, many feel that the S6's DCT, lower curb weight, and MSRP make it MORE desirable than the E63.
    Yupp your right that's why AMG is releasing the e75 with a 7.5 liter quad turbo V8 with a TCT triple clutch transmission / AWD to fulfill your big displacement/ turbo daily driver needs and compete with the rs6/7

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