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Thread: 2012 C63 AMG facelift models to get MCT 7 speed transmission, does this change the tuning game?

              
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    2012 C63 AMG facelift models to get MCT 7 speed transmission, does this change the tuning game?

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    The major roadblock for the C63 AMG has been the transmission whose software has not been cracked preventing tuners from exceeding the limitations. Well, Mercedes has no decided to replace the 7-speed auto in the C63 with their AMG Speedshift MCT transmission. This transmission is a dual clutch, semi-automatic transmission that is also featured in the CLS63 AMG. It is able to handle the torque produced by the twin turbo V8 so perhaps this means the C63 will have a higher torque capacity than the old 7G-tronic automatic which was limited to 542 pound-feet of torque.

    How does this transmission differ from the old one? Well, it does not have a torque converter. It uses a compact wet clutch setup with multiple clutches hence the name MCT (multi-clutch technology). It is a dual clutch transmission but not a true dual clutch. Confusing, yes, but really it is the automatic we all know with the torque converter replaced by wet clutch packs. This allows faster shifts of about 100 milliseconds.

    This transmission is available already in the SL63 and E63 AMG. It is also used with the new twin turbo V8 motors and is featured in the CLS63 AMG which makes us think it can handle a bit of torque. It is also lighter than the previous automatic transmission weighing in at 80 kilograms.

    There are multiple modes the user can choose to use with the transmission. There are four shifting modes the driver can choose from. There is also a completely manual function which will not up-shift automatically for the driver which is a huge plus and mitigates some of the driver interaction advantage BMW has had for some time. Additionally, a "race start" mode is features which is a fancy way of saying launch control.

    Overall, this is a great development for the C63 as Mercedes continues to improve the model and make it far more of a drivers car. Mercedes continues to raise the bar and we applaud their efforts. What we are left wondering is if tuners will be able to crack the transmission software on this trans and just how much torque it can handle. Time will tell, but this makes things very interesting in the sport sedan segment as it appears Mercedes has surpassed the M3 by continually upgrading the C63 while the M3 has stayed stagnant.

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    that is sick! dual clutch for the new c63. this is what they were missing it needs it cause once that tune comes for the new TT v8. its going to be a torque hungry monster.

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by fastgti69 Click here to enlarge
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    dual clutch for the new c63.
    It's more of an auto with clutch packs than a dual clutch.

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sticky Click here to enlarge
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    It's more of an auto with clutch packs than a dual clutch.
    yeaa the clutch packs/discs are to handle the torque. the dual clutch is for the speedy fast ass shifts Click here to enlarge

    right?

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by fastgti69 Click here to enlarge
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    yeaa the clutch packs/discs are to handle the torque. the dual clutch is for the speedy fast ass shifts Click here to enlarge

    right?
    I'm not exactly sure, no idea why Mercedes did it this way.

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    I have read great reviews on it...but also heard a couple e63 MCT guys complaining of jerkiness on take off, no racing but normal driving. I wish it was already out thou..i would of got it for sure
    Current:
    13 E92 M3 ZCP
    - WSIR 1:33:9 / BW C13 2:03:5 / ACS 1:56:7
    (Stock besides wheels/tires - Rs3)
    WSIR 1:32:8 / BW C13 1:59:2 / ACS 1:55:1
    (KW ClubSport 3 way / Rs3)
    WSIR 1:30:9 / BW C13 1:57:7
    (above plus Apr Wing)

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by DD GT3 RD Click here to enlarge
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    I have read great reviews on it...but also heard a couple e63 MCT guys complaining of jerkiness on take off, no racing but normal driving. I wish it was already out thou..i would of got it for sure
    That probably is in 1st gear, by default it starts in 2nd to no be so abrupt.

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sticky Click here to enlarge
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    I'm not exactly sure, no idea why Mercedes did it this way.
    they needed to catch up. porche has it, bmw has it, even VW with their GTI have dual clutches for the fast shifts one of the first too.

    and theyre smart with the clutch discs, they're making it fail safe pretty much.

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by fastgti69 Click here to enlarge
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    and theyre smart with the clutch discs, they're making it fail safe pretty much.
    How exactly is it failsafe?

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sticky Click here to enlarge
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    How exactly is it failsafe?
    putting a good amount of discs so it can handle a lot a lot of torque. esp when people will be tuning/modding etc..

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by fastgti69 Click here to enlarge
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    putting a good amount of discs so it can handle a lot a lot of torque. esp when people will be tuning/modding etc..
    I don't think they did it for torque handling capacity as much as driver interaction.

    We need to find out what torque capacity this transmission is rated at.

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sticky Click here to enlarge
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    I don't think they did it for torque handling capacity as much as driver interaction.

    We need to find out what torque capacity this transmission is rated at.
    How so in driver interaction? The double clutch yes.

    They're not out yet for testing right?

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by fastgti69 Click here to enlarge
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    How so in driver interaction? The double clutch yes.
    Manual modes that allow the driver to shift without the trans shifting for them as well as crisper, quicker shifts.

    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by fastgti69 Click here to enlarge
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    They're not out yet for testing right?
    These cars? Not until summer, but the trans has been out in several models already.

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sticky Click here to enlarge
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    It's more of an auto with clutch packs than a dual clutch.
    Correct.

    MCT is not the same tech as DSG/DCT/PDK. It's not a dual-clutch gearbox. It's more like a conventional automatic transmission, but with the wet clutch in place of the torque converter in a traditional slushbox.

    In case you're curious:

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/7G-Tronic

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    Doesn't look too shabby either...
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    Hybrid DCT?

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by DarkPhantom Click here to enlarge
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    Hybrid DCT?
    No, heh, read the thread...

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by c32AMG-DTM Click here to enlarge
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    Correct.

    MCT is not the same tech as DSG/DCT/PDK. It's not a dual-clutch gearbox. It's more like a conventional automatic transmission, but with the wet clutch in place of the torque converter in a traditional slushbox.

    In case you're curious:

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/7G-Tronic


    Thank you!

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    bad question , but anyone know how ISR (Lamborghini's new trans) work?

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by HeroSina Click here to enlarge
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    bad question , but anyone know how ISR (Lamborghini's new trans) work?
    There is a thread on it: http://www.bimmerboost.com/showthrea...sembly-Video-*

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sticky Click here to enlarge
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    Thank you very much Joseph , Helped me as always

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    That is not the same trans destined to be put behind the M157 5.5L TT. It's a revised version of the SL63/E63/SLS MCT that tends to eat more power than a standard 722.9, there have also been "issues" with the MCT that hopefully have been addressed by now--the wet clutch MCT can hold more torque than the 722.9 converter but it just passes it along to the next weakest link (trans internals) which led to more tranny failures. Also the shifting at WOT is far from a SMG or DCT, there is quite a delay still. This is due to the fact that as pointed out it's not a true dual clutch trans, just a wet clutch modified 722.9.

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by MHP LLC Click here to enlarge
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    That is not the same trans destined to be put behind the M157 5.5L TT. It's a revised version of the SL63/E63 MCT that tends to eat more power than a standard 722.9
    What is the difference with the one paired to the M157? It is also an MCT, isn't it?

    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by MHP LLC Click here to enlarge
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    there have also been "issues" with the MCT that hopefully have been addressed by now
    Such as?

    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by MHP LLC Click here to enlarge
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    Also the shifting at WOT is far from a SMG or DCT, there is quite a delay still.
    True, but it should be more responsive than an auto.

    So, ultimately, the question is will this trans pose the same problems as the torque converter 7 speed?

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sticky Click here to enlarge
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    What is the difference with the one paired to the M157? It is also an MCT, isn't it?
    My WAG is internals, we won't know until it's released and someone has one apart.

    Such as?
    Edited in post above.

    True, but it should be more responsive than an auto.
    Yes, but it's def not a SMG/DCT.

    So, ultimately, the question is wil this trans pose the same problems as the torque converter 7 speed?
    I believe so, MCT is a band aid for the converter, not the trans itself. From what we've seen so far with the SL and 2010 E63 versions I'm not holding my breath.

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by MHP LLC Click here to enlarge
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    the wet clutch MCT can hold more torque than the 722.9 converter but it just passes it along to the next weakest link (trans internals) which led to more tranny failures.
    Interesting, but will upgrading those parts pose a problem with the tranny software?

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    "It is a dual clutch transmission but not a true dual clutch. Confusing, yes, but really it is the automatic we all know with the torque converter replaced by wet clutch packs. "

    Ok, so it doesn't have a tq converter, BUT it will act like an auto? So...does that mean it will crawl forward when you let off the brake? Maybe...someone I know will get one and I can actually see how it works :O

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