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Thread: Weistec Releases Heads

              
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    Weistec Releases Heads

    Weistec Engineering announces the first CNC port solution for the M156 heads.

    Key Features:
    5-axis CNC machined
    397.88 CFM Intake flow
    257.81 CFM Exhaust flow
    Fully assembled, Read to run heads
    Custom ground factory 40mm intake valves
    Custom ground factory 33mm exhaust valves
    Heads can add an extra 40-50 HP on naturally aspirated engines, and up to 70 HP on supercharged engines with stock cam shafts.


    Click here to enlarge
    Click here to enlarge



    Any thoughts?
    Last edited by DD GT3 RD; 03-23-2011 at 04:53 AM.
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    Weistec releases CNC ported/polished M156 (C63 AMG) aftermarket heads 50+ hp gains, $4895

    Weistec has released CNC ported heads for the Mercedes M156 6.2 liter V8 engine. Weistec claims this is the first head solution although we believe MHP had an option available first. Regardless, claim is a 40-50 horse gain on naturally aspirated motors and 70-80 on supercharged motors. No dynos released but flow charts are below.

    Key Features:
    5-axis CNC machined
    397.88 CFM Intake flow
    257.81 CFM Exhaust flow
    Fully assembled, Read to run heads
    Custom ground factory 40mm intake valves
    Custom ground factory 33mm exhaust valves

    Heads can add an extra 40-50 HP on naturally aspirated engines, and up to 70 HP on supercharged engines with stock cam shafts.

    $4,895 with core exchange.

    Supported Platforms
    2007-2010 S63 AMG
    2007-2011 ML63 AMG
    2007 R63 AMG
    2007-2008 CLK63 AMG
    2008 CLK63 Black Series
    2007-2010 CLS63 AMG
    2008-Present C63 AMG (Sedan and Wagon)
    2007-Present E63 AMG (Sedan and Wagon)
    2008-2010 CL63 AMG
    2009-Present SL63 AMG

    Click here to enlarge

    Click here to enlarge

    Click here to enlarge

    Click here to enlarge

    Click here to enlarge

    Click here to enlarge

    Click here to enlarge

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    Sticky,

    I think you just have to be careful on what's being claimed. Click here to enlarge Not the first ported-heads solution, but the first CNC-ported-heads solution. Also, the vague, general claim that "Heads can add an extra 40-50 HP on naturally aspirated engines, and up to 70 HP on supercharged engines with stock cam shafts." makes me wonder if this has back-to-back dynos to support the marketing piece, or if these are just educated guesses at this point.

    Interesting developments, nonetheless.

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    I dont see why 40-50 hp is an unreasonable gain on an NA motor. almost 400 cfm of flow intake is no joke. If the heads are smallish to begin with, then huge can gains can be realized and are definitely a legitimate claim IMO.

    Also, the price seems very reasonable considering this is a MB AMG car and they are CNC'd. A fair price and great mod, I really want to see what these heads can do with an MHP tune and those aftermarket cams and headers. $#@! that would sound HEINOUS!!
    Some people live long, meaningful lives.

    Other people eat shit and die.

    I'm not racist, I hate everybody equally; especially fat people.


    Click here to enlarge

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by c32AMG-DTM Click here to enlarge
    This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
    Sticky,

    I think you just have to be careful on what's being claimed. Click here to enlarge Not the first ported-heads solution, but the first CNC-ported-heads solution. Also, the vague, general claim that "Heads can add an extra 40-50 HP on naturally aspirated engines, and up to 70 HP on supercharged engines with stock cam shafts." makes me wonder if this has back-to-back dynos to support the marketing piece, or if these are just educated guesses at this point.

    Interesting developments, nonetheless.
    Oh I am, which is why I made sure to state there is no dyno to support it and that MHP already had heads available. These numbers should just be taken as unsupported claims as you stated. The new development needs to be reported though even if there isn't support for all the claims.

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    Reality check time. Ported heads are worth (ours) 18rwhp SAE on a stock longblock N/A M156.

    50HP is simply not possible, the castings are too good from the factory. However by looking at the pics evidently weistec didn't agree. Way too much material removed from the ports themselves, bye bye velocity. Also, where did the valve guides go? They're mowed down so far there is no valvetrain stability and the valves will beat the seats to death.

    This why not just anyone should port a quality 4v head.

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    Also, where is the hand finish? Bad enough CNC= Core shift, however look at the tooling marks. Maybe this set wasn't fully finished?

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by MHP LLC Click here to enlarge
    This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
    Reality check time. Ported heads are worth (ours) 18rwhp SAE on a stock longblock N/A M156.

    50HP is simply not possible, the castings are too good from the factory. However by looking at the pics evidently weistec didn't agree. Way too much material removed from the ports themselves, bye bye velocity. Also, where did the valve guides go? They're mowed down so far there is no valvetrain stability and the valves will beat the seats to death.

    This why not just anyone should port a quality 4v head.
    I'm hoping Weistec backs their claims but I'm inclined to believe you.

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    LMAO here we go again, another unprofessional bashing attempt by MHP.. Makes me laugh everytime! Click here to enlarge
    Click here to enlarge

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by TaZaM3 Click here to enlarge
    This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
    LMAO here we go again, another unprofessional bashing attempt by MHP.. Makes me laugh everytime! Click here to enlarge
    He isn't bashing, it is a fact Weistec has not supported their claims.

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by TaZaM3 Click here to enlarge
    This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
    LMAO here we go again, another unprofessional bashing attempt by MHP.. Makes me laugh everytime! Click here to enlarge
    The only thing unprofessional in this thread is the claim of 50HP gained N/A. Actually that's a flat out lie and I will go on record right now as saying that. Calling out BS is not bashing, grow up.

    Do you have the knowledge to dispute what I've said about the ports being too large or the lack of blending between ports and bowls or the valve guides being mowed down?

    No you don't, so read and learn.

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sticky Click here to enlarge
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    He isn't bashing, it is a fact Weistec has not supported their claims.
    Still unprofessional bashing.
    Click here to enlarge

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by MHP LLC Click here to enlarge
    This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
    The only thing unprofessional in this thread is the claim of 50HP gained N/A. Actually that's a flat out lie and I will go on record right now as saying that. Calling out BS is not bashing, grow up.

    Do you have the knowledge to dispute what I've said about the ports being too large or the lack of blending between ports and bowls or the valve guides being mowed down?

    No you don't, so read and learn.
    Just shut up already....
    Click here to enlarge

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by MHP LLC Click here to enlarge
    This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
    Reality check time. Ported heads are worth (ours) 18rwhp SAE on a stock longblock N/A M156.

    50HP is simply not possible, the castings are too good from the factory. However by looking at the pics evidently weistec didn't agree. Way too much material removed from the ports themselves, bye bye velocity. Also, where did the valve guides go? They're mowed down so far there is no valvetrain stability and the valves will beat the seats to death.

    This why not just anyone should port a quality 4v head.
    I can see 50 chp! with the proper intake manifold and TB set-up. I have always took down the guides a tad bit on ported heads and have had over 100k miles on a set that the guides where ground down.

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by 600whp S4 Click here to enlarge
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    I can see 50 chp! with the proper intake manifold and TB set-up. I have always took down the guides a tad bit on ported heads and have had over 100k miles on a set that the guides where ground down.
    I didn't post those facts in the form of a question, you've never seen M156 heads in person, there isn't 50HP to gain anywhere. As for the valve guides, just because it "worked" on one motor doesn't mean it's good practice there's obviously a reason why. Do you know how much M156 valves weigh? All this needs to be taken into consideration and more and the facts aren't publicly available unless you've tested them yourself.

    Ever seen a M156 intake manifold? You can't port it, it's half plastic half Mg and perfect in shape. What are you going to do about the stock dual 74mm TBs that are integrated into the bottom of the manifold?

    It seems as though you are making blanket statements about motors in general, the shoe doesn't fit here.

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by TaZaM3 Click here to enlarge
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    Just shut up already....
    How about those that know nothing about cylinder head flow shut up and those that do comment objectively.

    Thanks and again, goodbye.

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by MHP LLC Click here to enlarge
    This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
    I didn't post those facts in the form of a question, you've never seen M156 heads in person, there isn't 50HP to gain anywhere. As for the valve guides, just because it "worked" on one motor doesn't mean it's good practice there's obviously a reason why.

    Ever seen a M156 intake manifold? You can't port it, it's half plastic half Mg and perfect in shape. What are you going to do about the stock dual 74mm TBs that are integrated into the bottom of the manifold?

    It seems as though you are making blanket statements about motors in general, the shoe doesn't fit here.

    Isnt the sls intake manifold better? I never mentioned porting the intake mani! I would just send the stocker to wilson and have them fab one up. So if there is not 50 crank hp to gain then there is no point in doing heads on a m156 period end of discussion. When I purchase a C63 it looks like it will get some exhaust and a boat load of spray because everything else seems like a waste of money.

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by 600whp S4 Click here to enlarge
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    Isnt the sls intake manifold better? I never mentioned porting the intake mani! I would just send the stocker to wilson and have them fab one up. So if there is not 50 crank hp to gain then there is no point in doing heads on a m156 period end of discussion. When I purchase a C63 it looks like it will get some exhaust and a boat load of spray because everything else seems like a waste of money.
    Better? Depends on what you're looking for. More midrange torque maybe but you cannot use it on a M156 (won't fit under hood) and the TB placement is up front and a different ECU is used to control everything including the different cams and VCT maps.

    You cannot use a sheetmetal intake on a MB engine without using standalone.

    People don't understand how good the top ends of these motors are, there is 20HP or so to be gained in head porting with stock cams N/A, just goes to show that AMG did a great job similar to BMW with the S85/S65 top ends--nasty stuff.

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    M156 Top End 101:

    These are stock M156 heads, they flow 390cfm/330cfm @ .500" lift @ 28" of water. We benched our own heads before and after and I've also seen one other guy in TX flow them stock and his numbers were dead on with ours 390/328cfm at the same lift.

    After Hand porting we see 420-425cfm/370cfm, along with back cut stock valves and a Serdi 5 angle VJ with hand blend. We test with velocity probes not just a bench because a sewer pipe will flow 1000cfm but won't make $#@! for power. You can tell by their flow charts that they didn't gain enough airflow to justify even half the 50HP claimed gains. Facts are facts, sorry guys.

    Click here to enlarge

    Click here to enlarge

    Click here to enlarge

    Click here to enlarge

    Intake Manifold:

    Click here to enlarge

    Click here to enlarge

    Click here to enlarge

    As you can see from the intake manifold pics, you can't do anything to it, and frankly you don't need to, it's a great dual runner design--although I like the SLS TB placement better. We discovered this over 2 years ago when we purchased a complete top end and 2 sets of spare heads for our cylinder head and camshaft program. We spent over 12 months R&Ding the heads.

    No disrespect to weistec but we will take the pepsi challenge with them or anyone else, and the claims of gains are just too outlandish not to comment.

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by MHP LLC Click here to enlarge
    This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
    M156 Top End 101:

    These are stock M156 heads, they flow 390cfm/330cfm @ .500" lift @ 28" of water. We benched our own heads before and after and I've also seen one other guy in TX flow them stock and his numbers were dead on with ours 390/328cfm at the same lift.

    After Hand porting we see 420-425cfm/370cfm, along with back cut stock valves and a Serdi 5 angle VJ with hand blend. We test with velocity probes not just a bench because a sewer pipe will flow 1000cfm but won't make $#@! for power. You can tell by their flow charts that they didn't gain enough airflow to justify even half the 50HP claimed gains. Facts are facts, sorry guys.

    As you can see from the intake manifold pics, you can't do anything to it, and frankly you don't need to, it's a great dual runner design--although I like the SLS TB placement better. We discovered this over 2 years ago when we purchased a complete top end and 2 sets of spare heads for our cylinder head and camshaft program. We spent over 12 months R&Ding the heads.

    No disrespect to weistec but we will take the pepsi challenge with them or anyone else, and the claims of gains are just too outlandish not to comment.
    Click here to enlarge

    and thats how you prove a point. Well done. Click here to enlarge

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by MHP LLC Click here to enlarge
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    Better? Depends on what you're looking for. More midrange torque maybe but you cannot use it on a M156 (won't fit under hood) and the TB placement is up front and a different ECU is used to control everything including the different cams and VCT maps.

    You cannot use a sheetmetal intake on a MB engine without using standalone.

    People don't understand how good the top ends of these motors are, there is 20HP or so to be gained in head porting with stock cams N/A, just goes to show that AMG did a great job similar to BMW with the S85/S65 top ends--nasty stuff.
    If there was a hood that let it fit, could you use the SLS heads?

    also, how does the SLS get the extra power over the C63 ? I know my car supposedly has parts from the SLS...but is the extra power on the SLS just do to intake/heads and ecu? seems like some of the parts could be used on our engines, no? or is the whole set up just different and nothing really transfers over?
    Current:
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    - WSIR 1:33:9 / BW C13 2:03:5 / ACS 1:56:7
    (Stock besides wheels/tires - Rs3)
    WSIR 1:32:8 / BW C13 1:59:2 / ACS 1:55:1
    (KW ClubSport 3 way / Rs3)
    WSIR 1:30:9 / BW C13 1:57:7
    (above plus Apr Wing)

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by MHP LLC Click here to enlarge
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    How about those that know nothing about cylinder head flow shut up and those that do comment objectively.

    Thanks and again, goodbye.
    Andy. I'm glad you're able to voice yourself here! In the other forum, it would have either deleted or the thread is locked.

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by DD GT3 RD Click here to enlarge
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    If there was a hood that let it fit, could you use the SLS heads?
    You can use SLS heads with a M156 intake manifold, they have 40mm int. valves and 34mm exhaust valves vs 40/33 for M156 heads, however ported M156 heads will flow better than stock SLS heads, so it's kind of a toss up as to which is more cost effective. Ported SLS heads would be the way to go but also the most expensive and we are talking about Maybe 10-15hp difference. The castings are just so good from the factory.

    also, how does the SLS get the extra power over the C63 ? I know my car supposedly has parts from the SLS...but is the extra power on the SLS just do to intake/heads and ecu? seems like some of the parts could be used on our engines, no? or is the whole set up just different and nothing really transfers over?
    It has over 170 changes, dry sump, cams, rotating assembly, heads, intake manifold, TB placement, exhaust manifolds, etc. SLS's actually make 600HP stock. A good tune will net another 35HP+ or so. SLS is a 2013 viper chassis essentially so there's a lot more room under that hood plus the dry sump lowers the engine enough that the taller manifold fits. The rot assembly (crank, pistons, rods, rings) is .5 kilo lighter with P31/SLS bottom end vs M156 but static CR is the same 11.3:1 so all the power comes from software not the bottom end. Heads, cams will work but that's about it hardware wise.

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by I am Jeff Click here to enlarge
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    Andy. I'm glad you're able to voice yourself here! In the other forum, it would have either deleted or the thread is locked.
    Thanks Jeff, it's nice to be able to speak ones mind. Click here to enlarge

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